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  1.  Home
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  3. October 2001

CEE4ABN

 >> yeah, and kind of complex. What I really wanted is a general mechanism
where a job could be started by anybody, do its thing, and gracefully go
away by itself.  But if there is no easy and foolproof method, I guess I
just have to slug it out with an ad-hoc solution.

Leif, the OPM COBOL compiler does this all the time in order to implement
the run unit.  Since it will also tear down any RPG, CL or anything else in
its range it may do what you want although it won't end the job if that is
what you're after.  I can't recall the exact mechanism right now but if you
compile an OPM COBOL program which includes a STOP RUN with the MI list
option you will be able to figure it out.  Since any COBOL program can be
the Main (root) program of the run unit the code for both the Main and
subprogram is always generated.

Jon Paris
Partner400



-----Original Message-----
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midrange-l-request@midrange.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 6:18 PM
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Subject: MIDRANGE-L digest, Vol 1 #511 - 16 msgs


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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Tierred pricing (was Tiger tools...) (Brad Jensen)
   2. RE: Sanity Check (Joe Pluta)
   3. Re: Model  270 VS 250 (Brad Jensen)
   4. Re: Model  270 VS 250 (Leif Svalgaard)
   5. RE: Sanity Check (David Schopp)
   6. Re: Tierred pricing (was Tiger tools...) (Brad Jensen)
   7. Re: CEE4ABN (Steve Richter)
   8. Re: RE: comma delimited file to database file (Mike Naughton)
   9. Re: CEE4ABN (Leif Svalgaard)
  10. Re: CEE4ABN (bmorris@ca.ibm.com)
  11. RE: Tierred pricing (was Tiger tools...) (Joe Pluta)
  12. Re: CEE4ABN (Leif Svalgaard)
  13. Re: CEE4ABN (Steve Richter)
  14. Re: IBM price increases (neilp@dpslink.com)
  15. Re: IBM price increases (Leif Svalgaard)
  16. Re: IBM price increases (Jim Franz)

--__--__--

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:14:41 -0600
From: Brad Jensen <brad@elstore.com>
Organization: Electronic Storage Coporation
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Subject: Re: Tierred pricing (was Tiger tools...)
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com


> also, if you purchase any extra interactive CPW you move up a processor
tier
> automatically. No logic here, just plain ole greed, but hey, such is
> business.

Hey, when it's my money I'm thrifty, and when it's your money
I'm greedy.

Some vendors sell things cheaply knowing tha tthe average AS/400
user will upgrade significantly over the life of the account,
and they will make their money off the customer as they grow,
not with the initial sale. Of course,

Frankly, I'd give my software away, if I could figure out how to
get everyone to give me things for free also.  Unfortunately I
haven't figured that out yet.

I want to price things fairly, so I generally price by
concurrent use. Some customers (mostly the smaller ones) would
rather I tier priced the software. I don't know if my pricing
strategy is really delivering hte most value at the most revenue
to me - which is what I want.

I do find it funny that one person on this list says that its
okay to beat the IBM governor by using his product to
rewrite/reconfigure your resource use, while just setting a flag
is cheating. I guess it's okay if you sweat a little to get your
results - until IBM decides to rewrite the OS to remove HIS
advantage also.






--
Brad Jensen brad@elstore.com
President
Electronic Storage Corporation Tulsa OK USA
918-664-7276

LaserVault Report Retrieval & Data Mining
www.Laservault.com

www.eufrates.com - Add distance learning to
your site with easy course preparation

--__--__--

Message: 2
From: "Joe Pluta" <joepluta@PlutaBrothers.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: RE: Sanity Check
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:44:11 -0600
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

This sounds correct, David.

1. Fields are not reinitialized if LR is not set on
2. An unsuccessful CHAIN does not update database fields

Are you finding otherwise?  If so, are they in a data structure that is
perhaps being CLEARed?

Joe


> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Schopp
>
> Okay, I gotta make sure I'm on track here -
>
> (This is all OPM, by the way)
>
> Pgm A calls Pgm B
>
>    Pgm B  successfully CHAINs to File X
>
>       Field XDATA is filled with values from file
>
>    Pgm B RETRNs to Pgm A without setting on LR
>
> Pgm A calls Pgm B 2nd time
>
>    Pgm B UNsuccessfully CHAINs to File X
>
>
> On the second, unsuccessful chain, field XDATA RETAINS the values from the
> previous read, correct?  (It's unsuccessful because the key data doesn't
> exist).


--__--__--

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:17:00 -0600
From: Brad Jensen <brad@elstore.com>
Organization: Electronic Storage Coporation
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Subject: Re: Model  270 VS 250
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com



Andy Nolen-Parkhouse wrote:
>
> Steve,
>
> I just ran two equivalent quick configurations of the two processors
> listed below and the 250 came out at about $19,800 USD and the 270 came
> out at about $23,000.  In addition, the 250 came bundled with Query,
> SQL, and Client Access, which was not present on the 270.
>
> There could be some fluke about the way expansion is handled for your
> configuration, but generally, the 250 should be cheaper.  Maintenance
> was also slightly lower on the 250 ($143 vs. 149)
>
> Just for reference, both machines had 4 8 GB drives, one 10/100
> Ethernet, a small quarter inch tape and no optional software.

Somebody neeeds to come up with a good linux-based OS/400
emulator so you could buy that machine for about $6500

--
Brad Jensen brad@elstore.com
President
Electronic Storage Corporation Tulsa OK USA
918-664-7276

LaserVault Report Retrieval & Data Mining
www.Laservault.com

www.eufrates.com - Add distance learning to
your site with easy course preparation

--__--__--

Message: 4
From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: Re: Model  270 VS 250
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:48:04 -0600
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

From: Brad Jensen <brad@elstore.com>
> Somebody neeeds to come up with a good linux-based OS/400
> emulator so you could buy that machine for about $6500
>

surely you mean $650?
that's how low you could go with a linux box.




--__--__--

Message: 5
From: "David Schopp" <dschopp@imt.net>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: RE: Sanity Check
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 15:48:25 -0700
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

Nope, I'm not finding it differently.  In fact, I'm surprised this hasn't
been found before!

Thanks, Joe!


> -----Original Message-----
> From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
> [mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com]On Behalf Of Joe Pluta
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 3:44 PM
> To: midrange-l@midrange.com
> Subject: RE: Sanity Check
>
>
> This sounds correct, David.
>
> 1. Fields are not reinitialized if LR is not set on
> 2. An unsuccessful CHAIN does not update database fields
>
> Are you finding otherwise?  If so, are they in a data
> structure that is
> perhaps being CLEARed?
>
> Joe
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: David Schopp
> >
> > Okay, I gotta make sure I'm on track here -
> >
> > (This is all OPM, by the way)
> >
> > Pgm A calls Pgm B
> >
> >    Pgm B  successfully CHAINs to File X
> >
> >       Field XDATA is filled with values from file
> >
> >    Pgm B RETRNs to Pgm A without setting on LR
> >
> > Pgm A calls Pgm B 2nd time
> >
> >    Pgm B UNsuccessfully CHAINs to File X
> >
> >
> > On the second, unsuccessful chain, field XDATA RETAINS the
> values from the
> > previous read, correct?  (It's unsuccessful because the key
> data doesn't
> > exist).
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
> (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
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> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>
>



--__--__--

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:25:02 -0600
From: Brad Jensen <brad@elstore.com>
Organization: Electronic Storage Coporation
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Subject: Re: Tierred pricing (was Tiger tools...)
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com



rob@dekko.com wrote:
>
> But if they need to gouge the larger machines in order to subsidize the
> smaller customers then they must be losing money on the smaller customers.
> If so, then why market to them at all?
>
> Rob Berendt

I hate to go back to the income tax analogy, but that's exactly
what heppens there also. You market to the small guys because
there are a lot of them, and even if they aren't very
profitable, they keep the cash machine going and pay the rent
whil you hunt down and kill the big game to make a profit. You
would have to charge the big customers even more , if you didn't
have the little customers to spread your marketing costs over.
Some of the small ones also become big ones later, so you make
them a customer when it is easier and cheaper to do so, and you
are already there entrenched when they become big.

Of course, I'm too stupid to do this, which is why I don't make
a big profit, but hey I've got good software!

--
Brad Jensen brad@elstore.com
President
Electronic Storage Corporation Tulsa OK USA
918-664-7276

LaserVault Report Retrieval & Data Mining
www.Laservault.com

www.eufrates.com - Add distance learning to
your site with easy course preparation

--__--__--

Message: 7
From: "Steve Richter" <srichter@AutoCoder.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: Re: CEE4ABN
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:49:19 -0500
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

Leif,

You could send an escape message down the call stack to the pgm you want to
cancel down to.

-Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: CEE4ABN


> From: <bmorris@ca.ibm.com>
> > >From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
> > >Can CEE4ABN (Abnormal end) be called from an OPM program and
> > >if so, how?
> >
> > It can't.
> >
> > CEE4ABN can't be used to end the default activation group
> > (it only ends when the job ends).  Since OPM programs always
> > run in the default activation group, there would be no point
> > in them calling CEE4ABN, even if they could.
> >
>
> I was kind of afraid of that  :-)
> Is there a corresponding API for OPM programs?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>
>


--__--__--

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:49:09 -0500
Subject: Re: RE: comma delimited file to database file
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
From: "Mike Naughton" <mnaughton@juddwire.com>
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

Just be careful of one "gotcha" -- if you download to the same file name
as the one you want to upload (when creating your FDF), you'll wipe out
your original file (been there, done that ;-).  Either a) use another name
(and copy your real file to that name before the upload), b) rename your
original and then rename it back after you've created the FDF, or c) put
your original somewhere else temporarily. . . .

midrange-l@midrange.com writes:
>Client Access automatically creates one with a new download. Just make
>sure
>your AS400 DB has at least one record in it, then download it to a file
>that
>does not already have an FDF file associated with it. (same name as PC
>download file, but with a .fdf extension)
>Now that you have this, you may use it for upload purposes as well.
>Just went through this a month ago.
>
>Dale



Mike Naughton
Senior Programmer/Analyst
Judd Wire, Inc.
124 Turnpike Road
Turners Falls, MA  01376
413-863-4357 x444
mnaughton@juddwire.com


--__--__--

Message: 9
From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: Re: CEE4ABN
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:53:30 -0600
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

I just want the job to go away...

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Richter <srichter@AutoCoder.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 4:49 PM
Subject: Re: CEE4ABN


> Leif,
>
> You could send an escape message down the call stack to the pgm you want
to
> cancel down to.
>
> -Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
> To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2001 5:29 PM
> Subject: Re: CEE4ABN
>
>
> > From: <bmorris@ca.ibm.com>
> > > >From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
> > > >Can CEE4ABN (Abnormal end) be called from an OPM program and
> > > >if so, how?
> > >
> > > It can't.
> > >
> > > CEE4ABN can't be used to end the default activation group
> > > (it only ends when the job ends).  Since OPM programs always
> > > run in the default activation group, there would be no point
> > > in them calling CEE4ABN, even if they could.
> > >
> >
> > I was kind of afraid of that  :-)
> > Is there a corresponding API for OPM programs?
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
> list
> > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
> > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
> > Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> > at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>


--__--__--

Message: 10
From: bmorris@ca.ibm.com
Subject: Re: CEE4ABN
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:55:45 -0500
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com


From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:29:04 -0600
>From: <bmorris@ca.ibm.com>
> > From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
> > >Can CEE4ABN (Abnormal end) be called from an OPM program and
> > >if so, how?
> >
> > It can't.
> > ...
>
>I was kind of afraid of that  :-)
>Is there a corresponding API for OPM programs?

I'm guessing that you want to have say A call B call C, and
for C to be able to end the whole thing, including A.

The only way I know of is to send an escape message to the
caller of A.  But I don't know how C can figure out the
value "A" to send the message to the right place.  Maybe by
looking at the program stack, but the criteria for figuring
out where the application ended would be application-specific.

Barbara Morris


--__--__--

Message: 11
From: "Joe Pluta" <joepluta@PlutaBrothers.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: RE: Tierred pricing (was Tiger tools...)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:59:36 -0600
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

It's got nothing to do with sweat, Brad, but with architecture.  PSC400
rewrites your programs to remove the 5250 I/O and replace it with a browser
interface, the same as if you rewrote your program to use e-RPG or any other
client/server technique.  My tool actually goes in and modifies the source
code, replacing 5250 I/O with calls to a browser API.

This is the direction IBM seems to want us to move: to a client/server
architecture where batch programs use the browser as the primary interface.
Let's be VERY clear on this: revitalization is an architectural approach,
not a hack.  PSC400 doesn't trick the operating system into thinking that
5250 I/O is not 5250 I/O; it actually rewrites your programs to use true
client/server techniques.  The only way that my technique could be penalized
by the interactive tax is if IBM changed the definition of either batch
programs or servlets to be interactive programs.

It is in no way the same as a CFINT buster.  It is instead a stepping stone
to a true client/server architecture.  It's actually very straightforward to
do what I did manually.  Go in and replace each I/O opcode with a call to an
API: I detailed that approach in my book over a year ago.  Since then, I've
designed and written a tool that will do it automatically.

Absolutely not the same thing as a CFINT buster.

Joe Pluta
www.plutabrothers.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Brad Jensen
>
> I do find it funny that one person on this list says that its
> okay to beat the IBM governor by using his product to
> rewrite/reconfigure your resource use, while just setting a flag
> is cheating. I guess it's okay if you sweat a little to get your
> results - until IBM decides to rewrite the OS to remove HIS
> advantage also.


--__--__--

Message: 12
From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: Re: CEE4ABN
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:00:52 -0600
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

From: <bmorris@ca.ibm.com>>
> From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
> >I was kind of afraid of that  :-)
> >Is there a corresponding API for OPM programs?
>
> I'm guessing that you want to have say A call B call C, and
> for C to be able to end the whole thing, including A.
>
> The only way I know of is to send an escape message to the
> caller of A.  But I don't know how C can figure out the
> value "A" to send the message to the right place.  Maybe by
> looking at the program stack, but the criteria for figuring
> out where the application ended would be application-specific.
>

yeah, and kind of complex. What I really wanted is a
general mechanism where a job could be started by
anybody, do its thing, and gracefully go away by itself.
But if there is no easy and foolproof method, I guess
I just have to slug it out with an ad-hoc solution.  :-(



--__--__--

Message: 13
From: "Steve Richter" <srichter@AutoCoder.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: Re: CEE4ABN
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:02:55 -0500
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com


----- Original Message -----
From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>


> I just want the job to go away...
>

So ENDJOB.

Or send the escape msg all the way down to qcmd.




--__--__--

Message: 14
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Subject: Re: IBM price increases
From: neilp@dpslink.com
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:07:21 -0500
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

 >> No, it shows the decreasing value of your trade in system as it becomes
another year older.
Just like a 1996 Buick won't be worth as much as a trade in when it's
another model year older.

...Neil





"Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
Sent by: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
2001/10/30 13:39
Please respond to midrange-l


        To:     <midrange-l@midrange.com>
        cc:
        Subject:        Re: IBM price increases


From: <rob@dekko.com>
> I just got a marketing letter from IBM announcing price increases for
> upgrades to 8xx boxes from 7xx boxes after the first of the year.

with the price of computing halving every 18 months this announcement
shows the classic power of a monopolist.





--__--__--

Message: 15
From: "Leif Svalgaard" <leif@attglobal.net>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: Re: IBM price increases
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:12:47 -0600
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

From: <neilp@dpslink.com>

> No, it shows the decreasing value of your trade in system as it becomes
> another year older.
> Just like a 1996 Buick won't be worth as much as a trade in when it's
> another model year older.
>

you mean to say the 7xx boxes will become cheaper then? just like
another model year older Buick...



--__--__--

Message: 16
From: "Jim Franz" <franz400@triad.rr.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: Re: IBM price increases
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:22:06 -0500
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com

> with the price of computing halving every 18 months this announcement
> shows the classic power of a monopolist.
>
except that every 18 months it takes twice the horsepower to run a new
application.
btw-WinXP (xploder) is not any cheaper than W2K.
jim

> This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
> To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
> visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
> or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
> Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
> at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>



--__--__--

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