Re: no Java in XP Windows -- MIDRANGE-L

Well, I don't think such a split would be workable. While, as consumers, it
would be great to immediately have competing vendors for the industry
standard OS and applications and such.

But, it would not be best for Microsoft A or B. It would effectively double
the cost of maintaining/enhancing the OS and applications they produce and
would give immediate competition for those products. Both would need to
compete with the other on price (since features and performance would be
kind of similar for a while), so they would have to shave margins.

That would cost the stock an awful lot of money.

Plus, neither company would have any real incentive to work with an outside
OS or application provider.

I think that Judge Jackson was probably right in the first place when he
said three companies, one OS, one application, and the other Internet
products and services. But, the Justice Dept. felt that two companies would
be sufficient. I believe that meant OS and "Other stuff."

Honestly, I have to say that this seems like a workable solution. I agree
that it really doesn't cure any of the things that happened in the past
(i.e. Netscape might not be able to recover from what happened to them,
WordPerfect same), but it would open the market to competition and would
force Microsoft(s) to adopt a policy of competing on technical merit.

Chris Rehm
javadisciple@earthlink.net
If you believe that the best technology wins the
marketplace, you haven't been paying attention.


----- Original Message -----
From: "jt" <jt@ee.net>
To: <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com>
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 6:44 PM
Subject: RE: no Java in XP Windows


> Chris,
>
> I agree with you again, almost completely...
>
> I think this could best be accomplished by splitting MicroSoft into two
> companies:  One that does BOTH applications and OS, and another that does
> BOTH applications and OS.
>
> MicroSoft has always used this technique, internally, to develop new
> products.  (The Office team recently won such a competition, and IIRC
> Project "Hailstorm" is the result of that competition.)  So they might go
> for this kind of split up.
>
> Bill Gates and shareholders get to keep all the money.  There would just
be
> more of it.
>
> Who loses...?
>
> Jt
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
> [mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of Chris Rehm
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 9:05 PM
> To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> Subject: Re: no Java in XP Windows
>
>
> Why, thanks for asking!
>
> The point of breaking them up is to allow other companies equal access to
> opportunities to bundle with the operating system.
>
> For years (two decades now!) Microsoft has been able to push a new product
> into the market by simply bundling it with their operating system and
> displacing the existing market leaders.
>
> If the operating system division were required to isolate their income
model
> from the income of the applications division, as would be the case if they
> were separate publicly held companies, then at least other vendors would
> have an equal shot on being able to get a bundling deal.
>
> A good example of this is Lotus/IBM. Why doesn't IBM just sink a few bucks
> into bundling SmartSuite with Windows and pick up some market share? Or
more
> to the more current day point, why doesn't Netscape?
>
> Right now, Microsoft can introduce a new application, like it did with IE,
> and bundle it into the OS. Then, they tell us as customers it is "Free"
and
> they just roll the cost of it into what we pay for the OS.
>
> Now, just breaking them up doesn't mean suddenly giving market share to
> anyone else. It would be a long time before we would actually see the
> benefits of this because it would come in the form of just allowing other
> companies equal access. But it also means that applications developers
would
> be guaranteed equal access to APIs (I don't know if you recall when
> WordPerfect discovered that they were given a different set of APIs than
> were being given to Microsoft's applications developers. WordPerfect
seemed
> to crash a lot more, this was one of the first times a breakup was
> requested).
>
> Second, it would mean that Microsoft's applications division would have to
> view other platforms based on the profit/loss of moving to that platform.
> The applications division has had a unique position in the marketplace.
> Historically, this could have made a big difference to OS/2. If IBM could
> have paid Microsoft's applications division to port to OS/2 or done a
joint
> venture deal with WordPerfect, then that would have opened up a much
greater
> market to OS/2.
>
> Right now there is a concern that if the new "Front end" to all server
> applications becomes the browser, the Microsoft has the ability to make
sure
> that there is an advantage to using IE/XP combined. That's not so bad, to
> see extra special beneficial features in IE and XP, but Netscape should
have
> equal access to the API that XP publishes for IE, and IE should be tempted
> to be ported to other markets like Linux or OS/2.
>
> Chris Rehm
> javadisciple@earthlink.net
> If you believe that the best technology wins the
> marketplace, you haven't been paying attention.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Taylor" <jtaylor@rpg2java.com>
> To: <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 2:47 PM
> Subject: Re: no Java in XP Windows
>
>
> > Chris,
> >
> > While I agree that something should have been done to curb MS a long
time
> > ago, I've never really understood the value of breaking them up into an
> O/S
> > & applications group. How is that going to solve anything?
> >
> >
> > John Taylor
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Chris Rehm" <javadisciple@earthlink.net>
> > To: <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com>
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2001 14:52
> > Subject: Re: no Java in XP Windows
> >
> >
> > > Along this line, I heard today on the news the Microsoft intends to
ask
> > for
> > > a new hearing regarding the illegal monopoly findings. I believe that
> they
> > > are interested in delaying any remedy until after they have herded the
> > > market onto XP.
> > >
> > > I personally think that a break up would be very much in the interests
> of
> > > consumers. I know that some people think that this would mean
Microsoft
> > > Operating systems would not work as closely with their applications
> > people,
> > > but I think it would lead to a day when they would have to work that
> > closely
> > > with all applications people.
> > >
> > > It would also surely make Bill Gates an awful lot richer. I am sure
that
> > > each of the subsequent companies would be an independent investment
> > > opportunity.
> > >
> > > Chris Rehm
> > > javadisciple@earthlink.net
> > > If you believe that the best technology wins the
> > > marketplace, you haven't been paying attention.
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > +---
> > | This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
> > | To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
> > | To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
> > | To unsubscribe from this list send email to
> MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
> > | Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
> david@midrange.com
> > +---
>
> +---
> | This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
> | To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
> | To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
> | To unsubscribe from this list send email to
MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
> | Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
> david@midrange.com
> +---
>
> +---
> | This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
> | To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
> | To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
> | To unsubscribe from this list send email to
MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
> | Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator:
david@midrange.com
> +---

+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---