Re: What About Price vs. Performance?

Joe

<snip>

> Brad, you'll NEVER get this level of flexibility with RPG-CGI.  Theoretically 
>it can be done, but I doubt that I'll see it in my lifetime.  On the other 
>hand, I've already implemented it.  That's because Java is so much more 
>productive than RPG-CGI.  Heck, I'm on my third generation of Java UI design - 
>the next one will support XML and revitalization as part of the base design.

</snip>

Surely the best progam language is the one you know best or appeals to your way 
of thinking best.  But, in the end, they are all terrible.

Programming must be the most inefficient process devised by man in any field of 
human endeavour.  It may be fun for us masochists, but productive it is not.

We all use the von Neumann model to handle vast quantities of data and to run 
our business.  What was a brilliant idea over 50 years ago for solving 
mathematical problems is totally inappropriate for the tasks for which we 
employ it today and for which it was never intended.

I find it astonshing that after all these years we stilll spend all or a large 
part of our time automating manual tasks that we should have got rid of years 
ago.  I assumed that by now  we would have moved on to a higher plain (dno't 
ask me which!). We will only really move forward when we scrap programming and 
follow the example of our brain which copes, more or less, with what ever is 
thrown at it, without any programming.

> Show me I'm wrong.  Implement a completely softcoded generation scheme such 
>as I've done, where someone can change the layout by simply adding a record to 
>a file.  Where you can change the positions and headings of the fields by 
>keying the new heading into a database file, and it affects every screen that 
>field shows up on.  Show me it can be done in RPG-CGI.

Most of this can be done plain old RPG - without CGI.  I demonstrated this to 
your former employers over 8 years ago (yes eight!) as a way of rewriting and 
dramatically simplifying BPCS - but they were not interested.  Why use 
something simple when with a little more effort you can make it impossibly 
complex?

I decided not to jump on the Java bandwagon, despite increasing pressure so to 
do.  It was some time before I learnt about some of the downside of Java, 
including performance problems, garbage collection, etc... I am glad I stuck 
with RPG and still see no reason for change.

RPG may not give portability, but unless an installation has absolutely  no 
development backlog, and no likelihood of new development work for several 
months, I believe that achieving portability whilst delaying maintenance and 
new development is a luxury and of little relevance.

 If you want to use Jave, that's fine, but if others want to do it other ways, 
let them.  There is no perfect way of doing it.

I feel exactly the same about XML - I can find no use for it - it is just 
another bandwagon.  But if others feel that it will lead them to the promised 
land, that's OK with me.

> Otherwise, it's just empty words.  This is configuration, not programming, 
>and if you don't understand the difference, then we've got nothing more to 
>discuss.
>
> Joe
>
> ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
> From: "Stone, Brad V (TC)" <bvstone@taylorcorp.com>
> Reply-To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:09:03 -0500
>
> >> > The primary benefit of my Java approach is that I can add
> > one record to a
> > database file and change a field into a dropdown list or a
> > checkbox rather
> > than an entry field.  No programming required
> >
> > Someone once tried to convince me that his
> > product/tool/system was better
> > than
> > everybody else's.  His argument was: "With my system, no
> > programming is
> > required,
> > you just give the computer its instructions".
> >
> > Surely, you did have to do "something". That something (no
> > matter what it is)
> > *is* programming. It might be in a different language, different form,
> > whatever,
> > but it is programming nevertheless.
> >
> > Leif
>
> Agreed, Leif.  I can (as I'm sure others can as well) do this with eRPG,
> COBOL, Perl, any CGI programming language as well.  The key is programming
> ahead for it.  No programming when the record is added, but there WAS
> programming ahead of time.
>
> Brad
>
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--
Best wishes

Rob
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