Please....Please...Please--end this discussion track on this site.  It belongs 
elsewhere.  It is just clutteing up everybody's mailboxes.

No offense meant, I am just tired of all the emails beating a dead horse.


-------------- Original message from "Mark Villa" <>: 

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My experience with H1B's are basically the same as far as talent goes 

Re: I agree with you - except for one key issue - the American cost of 
living. How many monthly bills are going down? 

! Raise your hand if you want to share an apartment with 3 other code 
jocks. Have you noticed, those in favor of off shoring (which is about 
dumb in a strategic sense) have avoided the ISSUE of compensation? I 
maintain that 100% - and I DO mean 100% - of the folks who can not 
find good employees have something wrong with their current offer, 
starting with compensation. Yes, it is a two way street. I live in a 
beautiful part of the country, that I call home. For many of us, home 
- is home. Just because 10% of you are mobile, does not mean "America 
is mobile". Unless there is an epidemic or an earthquake, I will work 
at Target before I move to NY, at any wage. Well, almost any (everyone 
has a price). 

re: >Sounds to me that some people are still very bitter 

For those of us that can not read between the lines, what does your 
statement above mean? 

To me, there is a difference between global workshops, global 
resourcing, teamwork, etc. AND the wholesale replacement of labor 
using most effective offshore resources available, for the sole 
purpose of cost reduction. 

There are many facets to the issue, and I am NOT saying which ones I 
agree with, simply I believe that all parties should include what is 
moral in their daily business. If *some* party seeks the desperate and 
deprived (which equates to the lowest cost), that is what he shall 

We all know the difference between off-shoring and outsourcing. I/T 
talent is more concerned about the business and tasks than who might 
be trying to replace them, that is why it is generally so distasteful. 
The 2-way steet rule is broken and is unforgivable. 

Outsourcing has been with I/T since DAY 1. Day 1, think about it? Did 
you fix your own printers? 

Just because some magazine says something negative about American I/T 
- don't spout it as fact here. What has transpired in recent years 
disgusts me. To think that corporate I/T leadership pretend to have 
the heartless view that only an entity is capable of (the mission of 
.Inc), yet sleep well at night in the safety and comfort that the 
American workforce and spirit provided. All of this disguised and 
cloaked under the blanket of "survival". In reality it is more like: 
Well, our #1 competitor is doing it-- and if we don't offshore, we 
will go bankrupt. And the domino's fall. 

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