Re: maintaining skills

Ron - all i said to this list (midrange-jobs) is that i did not agree with
the methadology of the
tiobe.com list, which had been quoted in a previous post. I made no grand
defense of RPG being the end-all of languages. In my note to tiobe.com (they
invite comments on their website), I said basically what you said below.
OS400 supports many languages. In my own work, I know that RPG does not
answer all customer requirements. But going back to the original posting, I
think it is in everyone's career and customer/employer's interests to
broaden skills. That in no way means RPG should be abandoned. That is the
idea I object to.
I would truly be interested in a more accurate study of language use. But as
their disclaimer mentioned - we can all disagree on the method.
jim franz
----- Original Message ----- 
From: <ron_adams@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <midrange-jobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 9:57 AM
Subject: Re: maintaining skills


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>
>
> I KNEW this would happen!   "KILL THE MESSENGER!"
>
> Being mad at the messenger or the message is not going to solve anything.
>
> Tiobe/Developer.com posted along with these stats, the following
> disclaimer,
>
> -*Disclaimer*-
> "The TPC index is based on the world-wide availability of skilled
> engineers, courses, and third party vendors. This availability is
> determined by using the Google and Yahoo! search engines to calculate the
> ratings.
>
> There are a number of methods for determining which programming languages
> are the most popular. If you ask ten developers for the most popular
> language, the odds are that the languages they use will influence their
> answer. If you look at the number of lines of code, you may find that some
> of the older languages seem to be more popular. You can check the number
> of classes or the number of job openings. If you go to the search engines,
> you can search on different langauges to see which returns the most
> results.
>
> This is all related to popularity. This doesn't indicate which is best or
> even which is the most used or has the most lines of code."
> -*Disclaimer*-
>
> Personally, I am a (iSeries) developer, who writes RPG, COBOL, CL, C, SQL,
> REXX, MI, etc. the list goes on and on. I also work in, write, and learn
> other languages as necessary to get the job done. The point being, I'm a
> Programmer who uses the "appropriate tool" (language) to get the job done.
>  I happen to believe the language isn't as important as the job that's
> required. Just like carpentry or auto mechanics, there is the "right tool
> for the job", and each tool (language) may work on the particular job your
> trying to complete, but the right tool just might make the job easier and
> even better. Obviously, if you're developing iSeries applications, then
> RPG is most likely the tool you would want to use. But whether or not you
> decide to face the facts, one day, like everything else on this earth, the
> iSeries/AS400 will cease to exist, after all, that is how we got here.
>
> I fail to understand why people find it necessary to defend an inanimate
> object, a programming language in this case. Perhaps it's because people's
> livelihood depend on this object. Of course, I guess it could be said that
> I'm doing the same thing by defending a set of statistics. I'm not saying
> that RPG or COBOL or any other language is dead (and neither is Elvis). I
> make a decent living using these languages. However, the demand for my
> skills, and the companies utilizing hardware/software that uses these
> languages is diminishing or they're just becoming harder to find. I could
> be foolish and think that this demand for my skills is probably due to the
> fact that these "archaic" languages are solid applications installed in
> places that don't require any additional modification/maintenance, however
> I know this to be untrue. I have helped re-write some of those RPG/COBOL
> applications for Windows/Internet/Unix/Linux as the requirement demands.
>
> Popularity aside, the user/customer's requirement (needs & desires) should
> be used in helping to determine the language that the application is
> developed in. Then, we as the developer should determine which
> language/platform will be the most effective to implement the solution to
> fit their requirement. Again, this is where the "right tool" for the job
> should fit. Unfortunately, the "best tool" isn't always the "right tool"
> in the users eye. A good example of this was Betamax vs. VHS. Sometimes,
> the users' preference will determine what and how we do our jobs. In the
> end, you can choose to learn/write software in whatever language you
> choose or have a fondness for. But, if that software is deemed by the
> users/customers as unfriendly or unusable or even ugly compared to today's
> Internet-driven methodology, then it doesn't matter what you used.
>
> Sorry for the rant.
>
> Ron Adams
>
>
>
>
>
>
> "Jim Franz" <jfranz@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent by: midrange-jobs-bounces+ron_adams=cranevalve.com@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> 03/17/2005 06:58 AM
>
>
>         To:     <midrange-jobs@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>         cc:
>         Subject:        Re: maintaining skills
>
>
> *** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
> *** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
> *** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this
> list.
>
>
> I sent this to the tiobe.com survey....
> I would not bank my career on this survey of languages.
> I did my own quick survey at dice.com (technology job postings).
> There are 268 RPG openings, far more than pascal(25)  or idl (25) which
> both
> made the list.
> I did send tiobe.com a slight rant as to why i think google searches is
> not
> a scientifically valid study.
> jim franz
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tom Liotta" <qsrvbas@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: <MIDRANGE-JOBS@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:57 PM
> Subject: Re: maintaining skills
>
>
> > *** Please pay close attention when replying to a message on this list!
> > *** If you want the reply to go to the list, use REPLY-TO-ALL
> > *** Recruiters may advertise only permanent employment positions in this
> list.
> >
> >
> > Learning new languages has been a part of my career from the beginning.
> Interpreting graphs and tables such as this and others has not been. The
> indicated table was from "December 2004". Here's the top three from March
> 2005:
> >
> > 1 C     19.465%     +0.54%  A
> > 2 Java  18.871%     -4.30%  A
> > 3 C++   11.632%     -2.87%  A
> >
> > Let's see... C was at 19.696% in December; it's at 19.465% in March and
> shows a change of +0.54% in March. Meanwhile, Java was at 16.332% in
> December; it's at 18.871% in March and shows a -4.30% change in March.
> (See
> < http://www.tiobe.com/tiobe_index/index.htm >.)
> >
> > Interesting to interpolate January and February.
> >
> > Also interesting, the page above lists the next 30 languages in
> 'popularity'. RPG actually seems to be not bad.
> >
> > Lost in some of this is that C, Java, C++ and quite a few other
> languages
> on the list are important iSeries languages. I suspect that a part of any
> decrease in RPG is accounted for by increases in other languages on
> iSeries.
> Existing RPG code already... ummm... exists. Not always a lot of need to
> write it again, especially if done right in the first place.
> >
> > Tom Liotta
> >
> >
> > ron_adams@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> >
> > >http://www.developer.com/lang/other/article.php/3448451
> > >
> > >Note: this is as of December 2004.
> > >
> > >Position Programming Language Ratings Change Status
> > >1  C                  19.696% +1.22% A
> > >2  Java               16.332% -8.68% A
> > >3  C++                11.914% -5.51% A
> >
> > -- 
> > Tom Liotta
> > The PowerTech Group, Inc.
> > 19426 68th Avenue South
> > Kent, WA 98032
> > Phone  253-872-7788 x313
> > Fax    253-872-7904
> > http://www.powertech.com
> >
> >
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