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Joan, It was Cheerios and they did taste a little funny :( Strangely enough I found R4 to be more stable than R6. The 4800 ptfs in R6 have mostly succeeded in making MAPICS different not more stable or functional. Some of the "enhancements" were unwelcome and not defeatable. One thing is better about R6 and that is EDPM, we are still at ptf 2624 and unsure about going to ptf 4000 whatever since the number of bad fixes and good fixes seem about equal these days. The rest of the client apps have issues at our level that will hopefully be resolved someday, but right now we are happy enough to avoid the client app training curve and not have to cope with the issues. Getting rid of the third party applications has helped as well. Our in house applications have the benefit of support (us), incur no license fees, and we don't have to worry about the enhancements that never come. We do still use Paperless and Powerledger since they do have real function and support. There may be other worthwhile third party applications out there that we just do not have. Source does have a lot of purpose other than correcting the code issues MAPICS either does not recognize or does not want to fix (ie the inability to calculate a correct ship date). It is useful for subsetting reports, chosing better defaults, requiring fields be filled in, creating auto schedule jobs, etc. In many cases it can be used to avoid buying one of the add on packages at great cost. We created our own mini-ISL to shift demand between our two plants. Why pay $$$$ per year when all you need is purchase orders in one warehouse converted to customer orders in another warehouse? BTW The latest Gartner report I have rates MAPICS XA as the worst of the 3 MAPICS products and categorizes them (all 3)as niche players. I am always curious about the evaluation process in selecting a new package and in an application environment that has been marked by lack of new product and innnovation over the years external forces are usually at work in the selection as Geoff has indicated. And yes the other users and some of the better vendors and consultants are the best form of support. I have been thinking for awhile that it would be nice to establish a non-MAPICS, MAPICS XA website devoted to answering questions, sharing experience, sharing code and enhancements. Anyone else think that is a good idea? Regards Konrad -----Original Message----- From: McCready, Joan [mailto:Joan.McCready@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 9:29 AM To: 'MAPICS ERP System Discussion' Subject: RE: We go live one month from now... Sheesh, Konrad... Who's been putting vinegar on your Wheaties lately? Geoff, be grateful you are going live with Rel 6 - we went live with Rel 4 almost five years ago, total novices to MAPICS, had no idea it had so many bugs. Every time I applied a cumulative PTF tape, MAPICS was almost unusable for a couple of weeks while we found all the "new" bugs. I was told last year by a MAPICS support line person when we were upgrading from 4 to 6, that MAPICS Inc would be totally relieved when everyone was off of Rel 4! Rel 6 is to Rel 4 like Win2K is to Win95 (IMHO)... There are a few gotchas, but this list is a good place to find them... BTW, apparently neither PTF level 3196 nor 4140 includes the logical files created in SH61688.660 (ptf 3501), but they do include the new level of program AMM53 - which we found out last night when the MRP run bombed! Fortunately, I finally know how to apply a patch like this one without getting dedicate mode! Not that we dare run MRP before tomorrow morning at 3:00 am (after backup) now... We do run a few third-party add-ins (MDCC being the most important one), and we have not had any problems. We run pure-plain-vanilla MAPICS - don't have the source and don't want it! (If I had it, my users would demand that I "tinker" with it so MAPICS "works" like the old system, even 5 years later!!!) Best of luck to you, Geoff - Joan Joan McCready, IS Manager phone: 636-479-4499 MetalTek International fax: 636-479-3399 The Carondelet Division www.metaltekint.com 8600 Commercial Blvd Pevely, MO 63070 -----Original Message----- From: Konrad Underkofler [mailto:kdunderk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 12:02 PM To: MAPICS ERP System Discussion Subject: RE: We go live one month from now... Geoff, I am curious on the choice of MAPICS overall? Forced on you by a parent company? As far as implementation goes be aware of the gotchas all over the place in functionality. Lots of gaps and bugs cripple what was a good design 15 years ago. Most companies have developed in house code to shore up the weaknesses or adopted third party products to patch things over. Given the declining state of the third party providers and MAPICS Inc's relationship with them, go with the in house solution if at all possible. And of course.............GET SOURCE you will need it for many reasons. Good luck! Konrad -----Original Message----- From: Geoff Richardson [mailto:grichardson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 10:49 AM To: mapics-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: We go live one month from now... Hi to everyone on the mailing list. My name is Geoff Richardson and my company have spent the last 22 months preparing to implement MAPICS XA 6.0 We are finally ready to go live at the first sites. I don't really have a specific question for y'all, but I would be very interested to hear your memories, lessons, experiences and advice relating to the implementation and roll out of MAPICS at your companies... TIA, Geoff ************************************************************** IMPORTANT NOTICE: This email is confidential, may be legally privileged, and is for the intended recipient only. Access, disclosure, copying, distribution, or reliance on any of it by anyone else is prohibited and may be a criminal offence. 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