Hi Joel,

I can't speak to the JEE issues, but the problem of Desktop applications
holding connections and so forth is the fault of the developers, not the

I agree with that, although I might use a different term than "fault". Yours sounds like the kind of solution I'm thinking of, and I could do the same myself. My preference, since it is a common need and would advance the desktop, is a standard form.

And this is the attitude that keeps me off these lists,

Feel free to vent. My "unfortunate" comment was mostly a joke; I'll put plenty of smileys next time. The rest of it wasn't, although my "trust" comment was aimed only at whether mono will be allowed to be viable long term. Your other comments, of course, made that observation moot.

I do have a question, though. Please don't misunderstand. As far as I am concerned you are more than welcome here, and if that were not the case, it wouldn't matter because I don't run the list, etc. But why are you on this list? I'm looking for a serious answer. If:

"cross-platform delivery is ...irrelevant to me."


.net is your area of choice, so you aren't looking for any Java capabilities,

I don't get it. I don't run down your view or choices, I just don't get it.

Joe Sam

Joe Sam Shirah - http://www.conceptgo.com
conceptGO - Consulting/Development/Outsourcing
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----- Original Message ----- From: "Joel Cochran" <joelcochran@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "Java Programming on and around the iSeries / AS400" <java400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:22 PM
Subject: Re: Rich Client/Desktop References

On 9/26/07, Joe Sam Shirah <joe_sam@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

<clipped stuff>

It's still a server world for now, although I'd prefer desktop
programming, and you can give a lot more client functionality. One aspect
of it, though, is that in a business environment, you want a shared
database. Most desktop apps tend to think of data as their own and keep a
connection for the duration. That's a pretty tough resource load on a
central server. I think the answer is a server component that effectively
manages a connection pool and sends data to the app on request, but it
a standard. JEE actually has a little-discussed client component, but you
generally need to bring a *lot* of the infrastructure along for the ride.

I can't speak to the JEE issues, but the problem of Desktop applications
holding connections and so forth is the fault of the developers, not the
technologies. In the project we are designing now, there is a central
Application Server that manages all the Database connections and implements
all the business rules. The Application Server handles all the requests and
executes all the commands. The Client holds NO database connections or
information whatsoever.

To Joel: We generally don't get into flame wars with those less
fortunate than ourselves. By which I mean, if you're not on Windows,
you out of luck? Yep, I know about mono, but do you trust Microsoft?

And this is the attitude that keeps me off these lists, the idea that I am
somehow unfortunate because I program for Windows. I chose this path for
myself after my experiences with Java. Swing in particular makes me want to
take up something more satisfying, like cleaning septic tanks.

I have said many times, and I feel I will be repeating it many more: this is
all practical choice for me. I am long retired form the Holy Wars: I am at
best agnostic about which path I follow as long as the choices make sense to
me and the work pleases my customers.

Yes, I know about Mono, but frankly if I wanted to program for Linux then I
probably wouldn't have chosen .NET in the first place. In other words, if
I'm not on Windows, then who cares? What I mean by that is this: 99%+ of my
customers have Windows Desktops, and I can't see that changing. Linux
Desktop users are not in my business plan. If it ever comes down to truly
needing a cross-platform interface, when less than 80% of my potential users
are on something other than Windows, then I will probably examine a browser
based solution. And who knows, Mono may work, but cross-platform delivery
is NOT one of the reasons I chose .NET, and so it is irrelevant to me.

<more clipped stuff>

One thing I will *not* use is stored procedures. Now that should start
a flame war...

I'd be curious to hear why?

Joe Sam

Joel Cochran
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