In the same breath I would state that JSF will be around for awhile until it
outgrows the limited vision the original creators had (same story with
Struts). There will come a time when enough of the side open source
projects provide enough relevant success that Sun will start deprecating JSF
and go with the next thing.

This is where Joe's approach to build your own is actually quite attractive.
I haven't lived through a lot of frameworks, but I have done JSF and
Tapestry. Both have significant lack of documentation, and both are
cumbersome to implement when you go outside of the box of what the creators
meant it to work with.

I would love to find a very light-weight framework for end-to-end Java that
was easy to use yet allowed you to break out of the framework when need be.
(75% of my Java coding doesn't have anything to do with the iSeries and thus
doesn't use RPG as the controller or model like Joe's).

Those are just a couple comments from somebody who has been burned by the

Aaron Bartell

-----Original Message-----
From: java400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:java400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen
Sent: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:43 AM
To: Java Programming on and around the iSeries / AS400
Subject: Re: A Dialogue

Kenneth McMenamy skrev den 25-09-2007 22:06:
structured approach to design applications that consistently performed.
Now we are faced with multiple language choices with ever changing
frameworks JSP, JSF, Grails, Spring, Hibernate, EJB, AJAX (Google API), PHP.
. . The list goes on and on...

My two cents is to pick a language **cough** -Java- **cough**, a
framework and stick with it. By the time you complete your GUI'fication an
entirely new set of standards will have surfaced.

For a web application written in Java I would recommend sticking with JSF -
the Sun approach to standards combined with the Apache Jakarta
implementations (which tend to be well-maintained and long living) - have
worked well so far - I have a complete application where the pages
contain only JSF-tags and an occasional JavaScript submit(). This
works well for maintainability.

Additionally the JSF AJAX stuff seems very easy to get up and running when
you have a JSF application already.

But in short: When you choose what to use, it is hard to guess what will be
available and maintained in the next 10-20 years. The Sun standards tend to
hold - notice that all J2EE servers still must implement the earlier EJB
standards so the code will still run - and the Apache site does not seem to
be going away soon.

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