Re: Employee vs. SubContractor -- CONSULT400

I would be interested if the IRS agreed with your definitions.

Matt Milne
Freelance AS/400 SAP BASIS consultant



----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth H. Werner" <KHWerner@prodigy.net>
To: <consult400@midrange.com>
Cc: "non-technical discussions" <midrange-nontech@midrange.com>
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 7:42 AM
Subject: Re: [Consult400] Employee vs. SubContractor


> --
> [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>   Are you a W2 employee or a series of W2 employee -- or -- are you a
> business?
>
> As a business you build a partnership and business alliance with
another
> business entity. They are NOT your customer. (I am a customer of the
> person that cuts my yard. I am in partnership with my medical doctor
> since we jointly work to keep me healthy). As a business your
> opportunity to make money is by being on their side. As a business you
> bill for value received by the partner from your services. As a
business
> you bill high enough so that you can afford to take the partner's
phone
> calls with questions when you completed the engagement. You are a W2
> employee if you want earnings guaranteed when you are keeping a chair
> warm at the customer's site and/or you lower your rate just so that
you
> can get the project.
>
> Employees require help from peers and mentors to meet the schedule;
> businesses are able to more stand on their own although they at times
do
> use peers.
>
> Although most engagements are based on hours, you are a business if
you
> do many fixed priced engagements. You are a W2 employee if you fear
> fixed pricing and want the safety of being paid for every hour.
>
> You are a W2 employee if you believe big business is bad and/or you
> believe the IT management is people that couldn't make it technically.
>
> You are a W2 employee is you like engagements were the project is
> dubious since the customer is less concerned about deliverables. You
are
> a business if you are concerned that your business partner gets their
> money's worth and all deliverables.
>
> You are a W2 employee if you work for or are motivated by money. You
are
> a business if what motivates you is the feeling of achievement and
> accomplishment of value received by your business partner when you go
> home at nights; you know money will follow if you are delivering
value.
>
> You are a W2 employee if you watch the clock. You are a business if
you
> see the need for and you give extra time to your business partner..
>
> As a business you keep continue to FORMALLY educate yourself. An
> estimate of cost is a minimum of $20,000 per year. You are a W2
employee
> if you believe the client should provide education, you do education
on
> the customer's dime or you believe the world owes you a job because
you
> graduated from college. You are a W2 employee if you are working based
> on past learned skills and plan to return to proprietary employment to
> update your skills when past learned skills are no longer good enough.
>
> The difference between employee and subcontractor is not a matter of
> taxes, liability for work product, copyright owner or how much you are
> supervised.
>
>
> MacWheel99@aol.com wrote:
>
> >from Al Macintyre
> >
> >I need an education in the differences in what is involved -
> >responsibilities, relationships, finances, gotchas - between being an
> >employee or being a subcontractor, probably both part time &
telecommuting.
> >Perhaps someone point me at some web site that spells this out in
terms that
> >are meaningful to a computer professional, who for most of my life
has worked
> >for people who are not technical managers, so it seems to me that the
biggest
> >difference one job to the next is the degree to which my manager
comprehends
> >the details of what I am doing for the company, and the degree to
which the
> >manager imposes upon me constraints based on that understanding, or
lack of
> >understanding.
> >
> >For example, I have had managers, and end users, insist on some
standards
> >that I felt were not in the best interests of corporate computer
security, or
> >efficient use of resources, or accuracy in output, because of
theirexperience, training, background & so forth.  They are the boss, so
after an
> >arguement, I comply.
> >
> >As some of you know, I work at Global Wire Technologies in
Evansville, which
> >did a name change last year from Central Industries of Indiana, then
due to
> >the recession's impact on Wiring Harness Manufacturing laid off some
office
> >staff and in my case cut my hours and pay in half.  There is the
expectation,
> >not promise, that as the economy & business turn around, there may be
a
> >future increase in my hours, but since I am in a computer support
role I tend
> >to think that other office positions will get the growth long before
they
> >need more hours from me.
> >
> >So I became available for part time work, where there is no obvious
conflict
> >of interest with my "day job" where I still work swing shift late
afternoon
> >hours, early evening.
> >
> >I have been asked the question - do I want to work as an employee or
as a sub
> >contractor?  My ans
> >wer has been that I have no idea, what are the
> >differences?  Well, I feel like I have a grasp of some of them but
not a good
> >picture.
> >
> >As I do get a better understanding, then I will be asking people who
know me
> >quite well to advise whether I would be happy in this or that
relationship or
> >head in this or that direction.  I also plan to write up something
like
> >http://radio.weblogs.com/0001011/2002/03/28.html#a1164
> >
> >except where Robert Scoble is only describing what kind of a company
he wants
> >to work for & what he expects from them,
> >I need to describe what I like & want to do for any company,
> >I need to describe what often comes with the territory that I am NOT
eager to
> >be doing much of,
> >and out of lists of what I have seen in my career,
> >both what I desire & do not desire from the work environment.
> >
> >I have heard several
> > examples of the differences between employee &
> >subcontractor in which it becomes extremely murky ... how is this
different
> >from my professional career?
> >
> >There is the question of degree to which my boss directs what I do.
> >Well, for most of my career as am employee, it has been to keep the
computer
> >and applications running smoothly & doing such modifications as the
end users
> >might desire, to help them do their work more productively.
Technical
> >details have been up to me for 95% of my bosses, their only input
being
> >relative priority of which of many possible things I might work on,
and often
> >it left up to me to determine priorities.
> >
> >The users, for who I do modifications, don't direct me either ... it
is team
> >projects.
> >They try to communicate their needs, I try to understand what they
really
> >need in computer terms, often with the help of other users, I suggest
things
> >that I think are doable that would help them, we let ou
> >r respective bosses
> >know what is going down unless they object, primarily because bosses
have
> >veto power over what we work on, but the most important reason for me
is
> >because of the other users who will be impacted by whatever we are up
to & we
> >need the managers to help with consensus building, and if they ask
for
> >estimates I warn that this is never an exact science & there will
always be
> >surprises, but if they expecting something done in X weeks, I
periodically
> >revise when I expect it will be done, before the X weeks are actually
up.
> >
> >In all modifications I try to break it into parts that can be
implemented
> >independently & consult with the users as to which are most critical
to them,
> >so that if the effort gets interrupted by some other priority & this
whole
> >effort is never completed, the odds are that they will always get
some of
> >what they desire in any project.  I also leave documentation inside
of the
> >programs so th
> >at if a fellow professional picks up pieces after I disappear,
> >they do not have to go back to scratch.  Usually that fellow
professional is
> >me, many months later, after I have forgotten about that project due
to
> >others in the interim.
> >
> >I have primarily worked in enterprises where the company hired such
people as
> >were needed to run sales, accounting, and so forth & they hired me to
run
> >their computer, and I was the only person in that area of technical
knowledge
> >and responsibility.   When a situation came up that I felt I lacked
what it
> >took to get the job done, I would speak up & suggest that we ask this
of IBM
> >or IBM Partner.
> >
> >There is the question of when I am there.
> >Well, except when there is a major project when they want the max
hours that
> >I am able to deliver, they basically expect that I put in a minimum X
hours a
> >week, on the average with my time sufficiently overlapping the users
times so
> >that they can communica
> >te their needs to me.
> >
> >There is the question of the tools that I would use.
> >Well, when I am on site, there are the corporate resources & whatever
I bring
> >in with me to help my own productivity.   Global nee Central in the
past had
> >been very liberal about giving new professional employees whatever
they asked
> >for on their desk top that they said they needed like Word Perfect or
> >Microsoft Word or something else, but as the company is getting more
> >integrated network oriented they are becoming more that everyone is
using the
> >same sets of tools.
> >
> >I am interested in doing new work by telecommuting from my home
computer,
> >which might not be up to that task, since its acquisition & upgrades
were
> >sufficient to support past history home computer needs, but part time
> >telecommuting probably needs something more.  It is Win 98 on Pentium
III
> >with about 3 Gig disk space unused (50% utilization), 320 Meg Memory,
> >recently added a CD-Rom/W
> >rite drive (to experiment with backup that way), on
> >the low end of display quality resolution (because I not like to futz
with PC
> >settings when switching to DOS games), bottom of browser & e-mail
barrel,
> >"high speed" Internet connection, protected by Norton Firewall.  I
have
> >several flaky challenges & not really want to move forwards to the
next
> >Microsoft flaky solution to some earlier Microsoft flaky problem.
> >
> >I am told that Client Access to connect to some company's 400 is
licensed so
> >that the place I working for would pay IBM license based on number of
users
> >(sessions?) connecting ... i.e. "free" to the end user, but somehow I
have to
> >figure out how to get this to my PC & learn what the impact is going
to be on
> >my PC resources.
> >
> >MacWheel99@aol.com (Alister Wm Macintyre) (Al Mac)
> >_______________________________________________
> >This is the Consult
> >ing on the iSeries / AS400 (Consult400) mailing list
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> >at http://archive.midrange.com/consult400.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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>
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