Re: General BPCS OGS question -- BPCS-L

> From: bblackwe@kcc.com (Blackwell, Barry)
>  
>  All,
>  
>  I was wondering how many companies were supporting their BPCS environment
>  without the annual OGS support?  Has anyone investigated the options in 
this
>  area, and if so would you be willing share your analysis or thoughts
>  regarding this issue.  Can anyone tell me exactly what this annual
>  maintenance fee covers or entitles you to besides help desk support and the
>  internet OGS online system?  
>  
>  Regards,
>  
>  Barry M. Blackwell
>  Kimberly-Clark China
>  bblackwe@kcc.com
>  Tel: 8610-6561-6688 ext 2609
>  Fax: 8610-6561-4280

You should check with SSA for them to tell you what all is included, because 
it might not be the same in different places in the world, like what is the 
language that your people speak & do they need to get tech support in that 
language?

Our contract with SSA GT for Help Support expires mid year & we will be 
switching to one of several independent outfits that provides BPCS Tech 
Support, but I seriously doubt that the competition with SSA is international 
for this.  Your choices may be more constrained than ours.

Now understand that there are several facets to the annual fees to SSA.
We pay for the license to use their software for example - that will not 
change - we will still be using BPCS & still paying for the right to do so.

Factors influencing our move included:

An enormous volume of the stuff on the SSA GT Maintenance Support List is 
stuff that we do not expect to use, provided we remain on V405CD with no 
intention to move up to V6 or V8 ... if we ever do decide to leave V405CD 
then we can revisit this.
In the aftermath of SSAX bankrupsy & SSA GT rethinking some things, there has 
been a significant price increase.
SSA GT has announced that they will be dropping support for V405CD in another 
year anyway.

There are types of support that we desire that does not come with the base 
SSA help line support.

Example - when there is some problem - our users who experience the problem 
have the best know-how about exactly what the problem is but are we on an 
AS/400 of what OS/400 version & are we on 405 CD & what is mixed mode ... 
that technical stuff that the help line needs, on every call, that does not 
change for us in many years, our end users cannot be expected to remember, so 
there is that stumbling block that from call to call, SSA forgets who we are 
& what our reality is ... this is not the case with calls to IBM tech support 
for example, and many of SSA's competitors.

Now we can have the people who know the problem tell an internal MIS person 
who acts as go between with SSA to get to SSA what they need to know but then 
when SSA has application questions that MIS does not know we bounce to the 
person who knows the application ... we do not have a happy medium ... I have 
supplied my people with a copy of the SSA fax form with the answers filled 
out but half the time when we use it the SSA technician does not have access 
to the information on the fax form & has to ask repeatedly basic information 
about us that has not changed in years, and is information MIS knows but the 
end user cannot be expected to understand, like if we are CISC or RISC.

Another example - our end users are knowlegeable with the BPCS application 
where they are having a problem, but they are not extremely 400 literate when 
it comes to topics of 2nd level help navigation & getting a job log, then 
when a BMR is identified that we need, even when MIS ends up talking directly 
with SSA support, if we get the BMR in our possession inside a month that is 
extremely unusual.  SSA is expecting a level of technical comprehension that 
is higher than our staff needs to run BPCS at any time other than when we are 
talking to SSA Tech Support.

However, 3rd party tech support places can dial into our 400 & be like super 
users, looking at whatever the problem is.  We do not have to be walking on 
eggs identifying ... well THIS problem is because of this BUG in BPCS that 
SSA just will not recognize is a bug ... and THAT problem is related to OUR 
modifications ... the 3rd party places do not care ... they find the problem 
& tell us what it takes to fix it ... they support the BPCS we have, whether 
it is the official version or not.

Right now when we have a problem, first it comes to MIS & I say
well this problem looks like a BPCS BUG - we need to call SSA Tech Support, or
this problem is in the 3rd party stuff we got, but I think I can fix it & 
here is a work around you can use until then, or
what you are asking for is a modification & I can get that for you, or
I wrote a software fix for that 6 months ago & it has been waiting on your 
department to test - do you want me to tell you again how to do testing, or
this problem is in a management decision that was made & you will just have 
to live with it, or have a discussion with your management & my management to 
revisit how important this is to you, or
we need to talk about what you are doing in some detail, because no one else 
is having that problem with the software, so it is possible that you are 
missing a step in what is supposed to be done to make this work right

Thus, from the perspective of the end user department, they cannot just go to 
one place & get the problem solved, and when it is solved it might be many 
months, and they really do not understand the difference between scenarios, 
and if we were getting our tech help from other than SSA they might not have 
to cope with the differences.

Also from management perspective we have had multiple incidents that appeared 
to them to be SSA unreliability ... we pay a bill & SSA loses the records, so 
it takes a while to get it resolved that we have a right to the protection 
covered by the contract .... we buy some stuff & SSA forgets to send us the 
invoice & then when we need some support they refuse it on the grounds we 
have not paid the bill that SSA cannot find.

I am a bit fearful of what this will do to us when it is time for us to 
upgrade OS/400 or AS/400 ... when all we have is the right to use BPCS, how 
long will it take SSA to get us the new software license?

What has not been satisfactorily answered to me is
let's suppose the 3rd party place finds that the problem is curable by a BMR 
that is available from SSA that we do not have & we no longer paying any more 
than the legal right to use BPCS, can we get that BMR under the legal right 
to use BPCS contract?  Or will there be a fee associated with each access to 
a BMR we need?

Now right now, under SSA Support that has not yet expired for us, there is a 
BMR we are waiting for that SSA promised 2 weeks ago that they would send us 
... I will wait another week & then ask them to trace it & quite possibly 
they will say that it is on the way & when it arrives the record will show 
that it actually left SSA the day after I asked for the tracer.  However I do 
not think it is fair to hassle them now because I did say our need is not an 
emergency ... they do not need to send it overnight special delivery ... 
sending to arrive in 1 week is fine ... and I know from experience that 
however long SSA says it will take, it usually takes 2-3 times as long.  
After all, we are a whole USA state away from SSA Chicago HQ.

When we look at the time & cost associated with getting tech support, an 
enormous amount of it is the time to get SSA attention to what is our problem 
& once a BMR identified to fix it, to actually get that BMR.  We have the 
perception that if we go to a tech support place that KNOWS WHO WE ARE & WHAT 
KIND OF BPCS WE HAVE every time we call, and is able to dial into our system 
to SEE THE PROBLEM, that the amount of time needed to solve the problems will 
be much shorter, less hassle for us.

Some of these other places offer pricing that is based on their time solving 
our problem, rather than a flat fee for the whole year, so when we look at 
the problems we have had, there is the perception that if these other places 
performance match their marketing promises (and how many places have you ever 
found whre THAT was true?  I have seen a few, but it is an exception to the 
rule), then had we had such a pricing arrangement in the last year or so, 
then we would have paid a whole lot less to get the same results.

Now I personally LIKE OSG on-line, other than the fact it has been a pain in 
the * to navigate until recently, but my management does not seem to agree 
with me on the value of OSG on-line.

MacWheel99@aol.com (Alister Wm Macintyre) (Al Mac)
AS/400 Data Manager & Programmer for BPCS 405 CD Rel-02 mixed mode (twinax 
interactive & batch) @ http://www.cen-elec.com Central Industries of 
Indiana--->Quality manufacturer of wire harnesses and electrical 
sub-assemblies - fax # 812-424-6838

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