Re: Is this really new ?

I totally agree about the inefficiency of a mouse - moving your hand
backwards and forwards from the keyboard to the mouse wastes a lot of time.
I much prefer a Thinkpad with a trackpoint and use an IBM/Lenovo keyboard on
my desktop that also has a trackpoint - no mouse to be seen on my desk. The
trouble is that a lot of users seem to think that if they are being kept
busy then it must follow that they are being productive - if only that were
true. I also still use SEU.

Function keys are much quicker to use than a point and click and require
less accuracy but I do recognise the mouse has its place and not simply
because users know what to do with one.

I don't see why a web interface cannot allow operation with both point and
click and 5250 function key operation to suit the whim of the user. If
there are prompts to make it clear to users that there are short cut keys
available, maybe they will in due course start to try them and become less
reliant on their mouse. I did this with my WorkStation Gateway version of
my product and I am in the process of implementing the same features in my
new CGIDEV2 based version.

But there are other shortcomings of many web apps. One is that if you
navigate a link, if you want to return to the previous screen then you have
to click on the browser back button when F12 would be much quicker. Aslo,
if there is a input box for a search term, then when the web app displays
what it founds, the input box disappears. If you want to make another
search, you have to go back to the previous page to make your second search,
a further waste of time. Why not keep an input/search box on the screen at
all times? In fact why not, through this input box, allow access to a site
index where you can type in, say, ".customer/ABC company/orders" and so go
straight to a list of the ABC company's orders in date sequence? The "."
tells the system to look in the index. ".*" would display the site index in
alphabetical order. Of course new users would not know how to to do this at
first, but, again, with a prompt on screen at all times, they would learn.
These are amongst the features that I implemented many years ago and they
work in both 5250 and Web modes.

We want to make the AS/400 (iSeries etc.) stand out in the market place.
One way would be to have a standard, consistent, easily recognisable,
interface that combines the best features of 5250 and point and click
interfaces and is an improvement on the standard Windows look. If the
presentation layer is separated from the busines logic layer, it is easy to
change the web interface dynamically so that different users can get the
look they want.

When I have got a bit further with my CGIDEV2 work, I would be happy to let
anyone interested to try the interface and suggest improvements. I could
write it up but a picture is worth a thousand words! However, I will see
if, when I have a moment, I can list the other main features that I consider
important and have implemented and ask for your views.

It does seem that you, like me, are not happy with the average Web
interface. Is anyone interested in trying to agree a design for an
improved, standard AS/400 Web/5250 interface?

Rob

2009/1/30 Aaron Bartell <aaronbartell@xxxxxxxxx>

Every once in awhile I do a "keyboard and mouse usage evaluation". I am
of the pointed opinion that the mouse wastes quite a lot of my day (going
back and forth from the keyboard) and the more I can stay on the keyboard
the better. So the evaluation I do, while not entirely related to being
in a web app, is to go back to using SEU to develop/compile/debug/etc my
RPG programs. I LOVE not having to go to the mouse. WDSC is the other
tool that I love, but it has "mouse issues". Meaning it doesn't keep me
efficient in a tool I am using constantly.

So how does this relate to web apps? Well, web apps come in a variety of
tastes. For some it is very necessary to have beauty over function
because you are more concerned about selling something to somebody every
few months than having them repeatedly come to the same page and use it
time and time again throughout the day. The flip side are applications
that I am in all day long (something like a SugarCRM or a ticket issuing
system) where I am not real concerned about the colors or images after
the
first 9 months of use and instead I would much rather have it be fast and
keep me efficient (i.e. hands on the keyboard). The dilema is finding a
means to an end. Most all browser applications drive me nuts because I
can't quickly tab my way around the page. Anybody else feel the same
way?

Anyways, I guess that was more of a rant than anything. But I wanted to
convey my thoughts that I believe match up to yours concerning SugarCRM.
But what can we do to rectify the matter? That is where technologies
that
have a "thicker feel" can play more of a role I think (i.e. Flex,
Silverlight, JavaFX), though who knows if those will actually be the
bullet we choose to run with as I imagine there will be more next year.

Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com

Nathan Andelin wrote:

From: Aaron Bartell
Obviously successful is a relative term, but I would define a new
UI technology a success if they could reach the same simplicity
and efficiency that we have with 5250 applications.


Well, if you want the same simplicity and efficiency as 5250, then you
might as well use 5250 ... but I kind-of get your drift, which was
underscored when I tried SugarCRM at the yip link that you referenced in an
earlier post. SugarCRM is typical of Web applications, but I found it to be
tedious to work with - not something I'd like to be subjected to on a daily
basis.

>From a user perspective, a browser UI can actually be more efficient than
5250 ... sometimes. Post a form submit using AJAX, where the only response
returned from the server is a completion message - perhaps 60 bytes. Over a
LAN, the response completes and the message is shown in about 2
milliseconds. Granted, that most Web applications are not designed that
way, but it is possible.

Nathan.





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