Re: RPGV?

Thanks to you and Kevin. With your explanations I can say that I have encountered that situation before.

I guess I just wouldn't spend too much of my $100 on it, though. For example, I keep programs in libraries based upon application. So, like the same file name in different directories or libraries, I rarely encounter such conflicts. I cannot, for example, imagine a situation in which I would want to retrieve a Vendor and a Customer address in the same program (now that I've said that some @#$% user is going to put in a request that requires it).

Unlike qualified data structures whereby one can use FieldA in multiple DS's in the same program, procedure name conflicts don't seem as big a deal to me, though I acknowledge that others obviously differ with that assessment.

Again, I appreciate the explanations that clarified what was being discussed.

Jerry C. Adams
IBM System i Programmer/Analyst
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-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christen, Duane
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 9:25 AM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
Subject: RE: RPGV?

Jerry;

In the case of RPG what is meant is a qualified procedure name. Some mechanism (H spec, binding source spec, ...) would be used to define a namespace for a service program.
We have multiple service programs that deal with addresses of differing formats, e.g. E911(MSAG), USPS, SAG... Many have the same procedure names, e.g. formatAddressLineOne. Currently we tack the service program name onto the procedure names, e.g. MGS0003_formatAddressLineOne. You have to know that MGS0003 is the MSAG address service program, not too difficult, and you MUST tack the service program onto any new procedures, also not too difficult.
But depending on exactly how IBM would implement namespaces all of your address service programs (procedures) could be grouped under an "address" namespace and each format could be grouped under its own name space so you would call the previous procedure like "address.msag.formatLineOne()" which allows you to better group your procedures, gives you a better human readable procedure name, and allows the binder to select the correct procedure because you have told it in the code which one you want rather than on some compile option.

Duane Christen


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-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Jerry Adams
Sent: Wednesday, January 13, 2010 8:52 AM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
Subject: RE: RPGV?

I admit that I had never heard the term "namespaces" prior to this thread. So I did a search. Most of the references I found dealt with XML and a few with Java script neither of which (correct me if I err) is OO.

But that's not my point. If I interpreted the sources correctly (again, corrections welcome), qualified data structures are a namespace. Beyond that what is meant by namespaces in RPG? I.e., are we talking about qualifying the field names by file/table name, such as FILEA:FIELDA, FILEB:FIELDA, with a "Qualified" keyword on the F-spec? Or something else/more? Why is this such a hot button?

Thanks.

Jerry C. Adams
IBM System i Programmer/Analyst
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-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Bryce Martin
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2010 1:53 PM
To: RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
Subject: RE: RPGV?

Namespaces are a component of OO implementation at one of the highest levels of the organizing structure.


Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777



john e <jacobus1968@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
01/12/2010 02:37 PM
Please respond to
RPG programming on the IBM i / System i <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


To
RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc

Subject
RE: RPGV?

But the fact remains that if you introduce namespaces it opens > up
the

doors to OO in RPG.
The fact is that namespaces and OO are two separate concepts.

To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: RPGV?
From: BMartin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 11:50:22 -0500

You are right, javascript is fully OO without classes.... but it still

has

namespacing. You can implement OO as classes/inheritance or
prototype/clonging, both are in practice today with classes being FAR

more

prevelant. But the fact remains that if you introduce namespaces it

opens

up the doors to OO in RPG. That is my point and no matter how
pedantic you get on language semantics it doesn't change the fact.


Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777



john e <jacobus1968@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx 01/12/2010 10:24 AM Please
respond to RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
<rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


To
RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc

Subject
RE: RPGV?

Granted, actual "classes" won't exist in the language, and you won't

get

inheritance.

Also, "classes" and "inheritance" also have nothing (well ok, someting

ut

not essential) to do with OO.
Just concepts implemented in many OO languages.

Javascript i.e. is fully OO, but has no classes and (therefore) no
inheritance.

Yes, i'm in a pedantic mood today

To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
CC: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx; rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: RPGV?
From: BMartin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 09:51:35 -0500

But Namespaces are indeed an OO concept. That is what you
encapsulate

your Classes in. In java this is known as a Package. By
introducing namespaces you begin to flirt with the idea of offering
more and more

OO

features into the language. You can simulate a class using a data
structures and procedures. Offer overloading of procedure names and

this

really starts to take some shape.

Granted, actual "classes" won't exist in the language, and you won't

get

inheritance. But if you offered Interfaces as someone else
suggested

its

just another piece of the OO pie.


Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777



john e <jacobus1968@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx 01/12/2010 09:12 AM Please
respond to RPG programming on the IBM i / System i
<rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


To
RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> cc

Subject
RE: RPGV?







Namespaces / overloading has nothing to do with OO.
OO is all about encapsulation.
You don't encapsulate anything with namespaces/overloading.

OORPG... please

First try to make the current version of RPG a bit more sane...

And why bother, i never encountered an RPG programmer who even heard

about

terms like "encapsulation" or even "variable scoping", let alone use

it.

To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: RPGV?
From: BMartin@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 12 Jan 2010 08:40:59 -0500

So you want RPG to go OO?

This is essentially what you'll get if you allow procedure

overloading

and

namespaces. At least you'll have almost all the language construct

to

make it happen. Coming from C/C++ in all my time in highschool
and college and then learning Java as well I'm quite fond of OO
and

really

miss it, so it wouldn't be so bad for me :D

I'm just wondering how the RPG lifers feel about this. Without a
background in an OO language I would think many RPGers would be a

bit

lost

with Namespaces and Procedure overloading... just as most have

bucked

the

idea of Modules/Service Progams. I'm not saying it shouldn't be

done.

I

very much support it, but I just hope everyone realizes that it'll

be

another one of those 30% adoption situations again (or whatever
the

case

is for service programs).


Thanks
Bryce Martin
Programmer/Analyst I
570-546-4777



Larry Ducie <larry_ducie@xxxxxxxxxxx> Sent by:
rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx 01/12/2010 06:34 AM Please respond
to RPG programming on the IBM i / System i <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


To
RPG400 <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc

Subject
Re: RPGV?







Hi Hans,

My two cents on this:

The DCL keyword: This would make my RPG look like CL. That alone

would

kill it for me.
Comma vs Colon: Only a proctologist would really care.
Calc Spec V: Already free so we just lose the /free and /end-free

and

make

it compulsory.

At this point in time I really don't think I would want my $100

spent

on

freeing RPG. It is functionality I want, not lipstick.

I would spend my money on:

1) Overloading sub-procedures ($75) This is an obvious need and is
well overdue.

2) Namespaces for Service Programs and Modules ($20) I would like
to have a NAMESPACE keyword (H-spec) for a SRVPGM or

MODULE

and then qualify a procedure with that namespace. This would allow

me

to

reference two service programs that export a similarly named

subprocedure

and not have conflicts.

For example, two SRVPGMS export a getName procedure. This conflict

is

solved with the following two lines:
NAMESPACE(MYSRVPGM1 : 'Contact')
NAMESPACE(MYSRVPGM2 : 'Customer')

I could then have:

contactName = Contact::GetName(parm); customerName =
Customer::GetName(parm);


We REALLY need this. We use so many SRVPGMS and it just gets
harder

and

harder to keep procedure names unique across our SRVPGMs. We
simply shouldn't have to.

3) Ability to put a Binding Directory into another Binding
Directory

($5)

We have lots of Service Programs, and we generate quite complex
inter-dependencies. For our prototype copybooks we can copy our

prototypes

into other copybooks to form new (more complex) copybooks.

Unfortunately,

we can't do the same with our Binding Directories. This is a real

pain.

Example:
A Person 'object' is implemented in three SRVPGMS. Each has its
own copybook and Binding Direcory. To include the Person objects
in a

program

we use a /include of the PERSON copybook (which includes a
/include

of

the

three SRVPGM copybooks). We also reference the PERSON Binding

Directory.

This doesn't reference the theee original Binding Directories

(because

it

can't) so it has to list the three SRVPGM objects again. If we
split

one

of the original SRVPGMS into two we would have issues. The
copybook

is

easy because we reference the two new copybooks in the original
and

all

copybooks built on it would get the new values. However, ALL of
the Binding Directories that list the original SRVPGM have to be
found

and

amended. This could be solved by simply amending the original

Binding

Directory to include a refenrece to the two new Binding
Directories

and

letting all references filter through. Just want to keep it

consistent.

Hope that all makes sense, and Happy New Year!

Cheers

Larry Ducie



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