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  1.  Home
  2. RPG400-L
  3. July 2006

Re: Death of RPG38 and RPG36 -and- more!

then zero existing sales minus any loss of sales is still not a positive number, right? 

I think it was my comment about "occasional upgrades".
Given latest sales figures, having a few thousand ancient systems upgrade every year (worldwide) is not a bad thing. It may be a small percentage of the billions (with a "B") they sell, but it does add up. Actually the average I have seen over last 23 years with smaller accounts like this is every 7 years. The systems long ago were $100k plus, and now they run $30-80k. If even 1,000 worldwide came out of the closet each year and spend $50k each that would be $50 million a year. 
The biggest reasons for leaving IBM that I have seen:
a) mergers or business failures or
b) the failure of application providers to modernize systems.
c) excessive maintenance fees (hardware, software, applications, tools, etc all added together versus replacement (and many do get the TCO calcs wrong and make bad choices).
Oracle doesn't play in this low end market unless the app provider supplies it. Most of these are smaller shops, with total IT staff from zero to 5, and few if any get any education. They probably don't know what an iSeries really is, let alone a system i ...
Now, I have no problem with IBM "pushing" sites to upgrade. I think IBM's packaging of the low end i5 has been great for small customers, or large customers using distributed servers. I also think the rpgii code conversion is like a bad y2k project - they are messy, with or without available tools. None want to spend mega-bucks for an upgrade of code that provides no enhancements, so there is "opportunity" to bundle conversion with real enhancements. btw-I've been pushing rpgii replacement since 1988, year 1 for the as400. 

jim franz
----- Original Message ----- From: <rob@xxxxxxxxx> 
To: "RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries" <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2006 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: Death of RPG38 and RPG36 -and- more!



I am disappointed by this withdrawal of the withdrawal.  :-)

I do find it surprising that any S/36 environment people do upgrade.  I
would have thought that they would have purchased their as/400 years ago
and be running fat and stupid on it.  As far as IBM fearing that these
people may go to Oracle or whatever, why should they care?  I mean, if
they're not spending money with IBM as it is, then zero existing sales
minus any loss of sales is still not a positive number, right?

However, someone said that they do occasionally upgrade, only just about
once a decade.

Rob Berendt
--
Group Dekko Services, LLC
Dept 01.073
PO Box 2000
Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





Jerry Adams <jerry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent by: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
07/12/2006 01:51 PM
Please respond to
RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>


To
RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
cc

Subject
Re: Death of RPG38 and RPG36 -and- more!






I was looking forward to the demise.  About 70% of our code is RPG II
(and OCL) ported from a /36 and originally written on a /34.  It was
100% until I started here almost three (3) years ago.


The withdrawal would have given me some leverage to spend some money (a
hard thing to do here) on a tool to convert the code and OCL.  It can be
done by hand, but it's certainly labor intensive doing it that way.


On the other hand IBM may have calculated (pure speculation on my part)
that it would have given some customers the impetus to finally check out
other alternatives whether those be ASNA or even Oracle or other SQL
server.  They may, also, have speculated that it would cause some
customers to simply "freeze" their systems at the last viable release.
My guess is that, rather than spend money, we would have fallen into
that last category here.


I can't see maintaining the /36 and /38 compilers being a financial
drain.  My guess is that there is absolutely no work being done on
either, but Barbara could address with more authority than I.  The
environments, on the other hand, probably do require some tweaking from
time-to-time.


                * Jerry C. Adams
*IBM System i Programmer/Analyst
B&W Wholesale Distributors, Inc.* *
voice
                615.995.7024
fax
                615.995.1201
email
                jerry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:jerry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>



Jim Franz wrote:


like officevision, which ibm extended at least once, but ibm has

certainly

put the 1st nail in the coffin....at let shops know what's coming. I
imagine,
till some shops woke up and checked, IBM had no real idea how many
still run the old stuff.
jim
----- Original Message ----- From: "Barbara Morris" <bmorris@xxxxxxxxxx> 
To: <rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2006 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Death of RPG38 and RPG36 -and- more!


rob@xxxxxxxxx wrote:



...
Quoting from the article:
"First up, IBM says that WebSphere Development Studio for iSeries V5R4
will be the last release to ship with RPG II and COBOL compilers that

are

compatible with the System/36 and RPG III and COBOL compilers that are
compatible with the System/38. ...




IBM has withdrawn the planning statement about withdrawing support for
the 36- and 38-compatible RPG and COBOL compilers.  If I recall this
thread correctly, this is probably good news for some and bad news for
others on this list :)

http://www-03.ibm.com/servers/eserver/support/iseries/planning/upgrade/v5r4/planstmts.html

  RPG and COBOL System/36T and System/38T compatible compilers, July
2006

  IBM plans to continue to ship and support the following S/36 and S/38
compiler
  options as part of WebSphere Development Studio for iSeries in the
release after
  V5R4. IBM is withdrawing the previous planning statement that said
V5R4 will
  be the final release to include these compilers in the Software
Maintenance or
  Software Subscription contract.
     5722-WDS Option 32 - System/36 Compatible RPG II
     5722-WDS Option 33 - System/38 Compatible RPG III
     5722-WDS Option 42 - System/36 Compatible COBOL
     5722-WDS Option 43 - System/38 Compatible COBOL





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