Hello Jim,
thanks for the clarifications.
Am 28.02.2024 um 14:30 schrieb Jim Oberholtzer <midrangel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
At the risk of igniting a flame war, (and this is the last I’ll say about it), Patrick, for those of us who are System Administrators on IBM i , firmware updates are particularly simple.
Be assured that I don't want to start a flame war also, but take the opportunity to show that "it's always been like that" is not always the best way of doing things forever. Your frequent mentioning of Open Source solutions seeping into IBM i makes me assume that you're aware of change being the only constant in life. :-)
Yes, if you only run IBM i *or* a HMC with whatever OS, your statement is true. But nowadays, IBM i isn't the only OS which can run on a given machine (with it's supporting firmware to bootstrap itself into a fully usable server). I don't know how FW updates are handled with AIX or VIOS. Linux? No idea.
So there are many "if's" to consider about firmware updates and part of this is what strikes me (and apparently not only me) as complicated.
- HMC yes or no
- primary OS being IBM i or not
- OS settings to keep track of for PTF based FW-updates
Possibly more. Maybe you're used to this but for me the whole story feels alien, intransparent and cumbersome. Others to differently, and I fancy the HPE way a lot, because it's a concise and automatic procedure and not obscure in any way. But maybe this is just me. :-)
If you don’t have an HMC, then regularly apply PTF groups (as you should anyway) and the system will simply deal with that for you.
I've understood.
If you have an HMC and wish the HMC to manage it, then you can update the firmware, often times without disruption and at will, and it’s particularly simple. You just tell it to go out and get the appropriate update and apply it, the HMC does the rest. Only when the firmware falls way behind does it get more complicated.
Apparently it wasn't that simple for Greg. His comment was what got me started about me feeling the whole procedure being laborious and manual.
Linux (Unix including AIX) is still a bit of challenge for me since so much of the Admin is done manually, and on demand as opposed to automatically like IBM i . Updating device drivers for instance is a separate action from updating the OS system.
Yes, there's a clear borderline between OS and the "metal" the OS is running upon. This is necessary because — as you know — Linux is one of many possible operating systems for Wintel hardware. Of course IBM can do things differently because in the IBM i world, both the hardware and software are under their control.
Linux most likely could do that too, but the culture of Linux administration would most likely veto that since direct absolute control over the environment is highly desired.
Is it? Hmm. Not sure.
Also, in the Wintel-World, newer firmware not necessarily mandates updated drivers in the OS layer.
You know Linux very well so it is plain and simple to you, not so much for the uneducated and unexperienced.
There is currently no *established* way for generic firmware updates on Linux. There are just too many vendors. The community has started to establish a common standard but some manufacturers of very cheap hardware just don't care.
HPE in particular has been at the forefront of making updates easy without the need to consider the OS. Insert USB stick, a couple of clicks and you're set.
Other vendors require you to have a Windows installation at hand and use proprietary updaters.
ARE is a fabulous tool that IBM created primarily for its own use in troubleshooting customer issues, and made it available to anyone.
As said before, ARE IMO has a different scope about what it does. When I'm talking firmware updates, I'm talking just a bit above the hardware and this is not what ARE is about.
With a little Java programming you could use ARE to find system related issues and correct them automatically. (The programming part is in the correction of the issue)
I don’t remember if ARE is available to the older OS VRM that you typically report using but if it is you should have a look.
Thanks. From the descriptions, I see it for me like taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut. Utilizing it might make more sense in bigger enterprises with many machines.
I don't want to belittle ARE. It's just not matching the topic about Firmware Updates which started this thread. ;-)
:wq! PoC
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