Re: [EXTERNAL] RE: the cycle that never ends

On Jun 13, 2018, at 3:22 PM, Jeff Crosby <jlcrosby@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"IF (and I emphasize IF) you use the cycle as nature intended it is not a
problem and works well . . . "

That's my point.


On Wed, Jun 13, 2018 at 10:14 AM, Jon Paris <jon.paris@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

I'm with Jim on this one. I would add that my dislike of the cycle began
in earnest while trying to maintain a program where the programmer had
spent more energy on fighting the cycle to get the program to do what he
wanted that he did anything else.

IF (and I emphasize IF) you use the cycle as nature intended it is not a
problem and works well - but all too often over time the requirements
change and the code gets into "fight" mode. I'd rather have a piece of
code that anyone can understand than rely on a knowledge of an arcane
feature that has more in common with punch cards than with today's
application needs.


Jon Paris

www.partner400.com
www.SystemiDeveloper.com

On Jun 13, 2018, at 2:30 PM, Jim Oberholtzer <

midrangel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

SQL is a language unto itself requiring a separate set of skills that
combined with most any programming language today that use a relational
database means you can manipulate data as needed. I see SQL as a core

skill

in todays' world, with the potential exception of the larger noSQL
databases.

As to the earlier comment that we should not use any feature in a

language

that's not available in all other languages, that's taking the concept to
absurdity. They cycle has not been taught or commonly used in new
development in some time, aside from the quick utility programs that we

all

occasionally write. Do you intentionally use program described files

and

output specs in new development, ignoring the fact that SQL and other
programs could not access the data easily? No because we have moved past
those days. The cycle is in the same category.

Use the cycle if you wish, it's efficient and reasonably easy for simple
read, process, write programs. Then plan on never retiring, since

you'll be

the only one to be able to maintain it.

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Agile Technology Architects


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of

Alan

Shore
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 7:52 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: [EXTERNAL] RE: the cycle that never ends

Hi Jim
Even though Im not a fan of the cycle, I don't agree with this comment I

was

a mainframe COBOL programmer when I was given a couple of manuals for the
AS/400 and told - here, learn this I was doing okay until I came across a
program that had no reads of a file Sent me up the wall - until days

later -

I finally saw the p in the f-spec THAT was my introduction of the cycle
Traumatized me so much I even have flashbacks Oh the terror

Anyway, I use embedded SQL and I know there are quite a number of my

fellow

compadres have a problem with SQL - period Because of that, should I

never

use embedded SQL?

Alan Shore
E-mail : ASHORE@xxxxxxxx
Phone [O] : (631) 200-5019
Phone [C] : (631) 880-8640
'If you're going through hell, keep going.'
Winston Churchill

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of

Jim

Oberholtzer
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2018 8:37 AM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion' <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: the cycle that never ends

Since no other language has the cycle (that I'm aware of) in today's

world

where you might not be the one to maintain the program, more currently
traditional styles of managing I/O is vastly preferred. Regardless of

your

adoration for the cycle, it's no longer commonly used. Sure it's easy in
the right circumstance, however 99.5% of the students coming out of

school

have never seen a cycle program. That makes it your problem, not

theirs, to

make sure they can maintain what you built.


--
Jim Oberholtzer
Agile Technology Architects

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of

James

H. H. Lampert
Sent: Tuesday, June 12, 2018 1:19 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: the cycle that never ends

On 6/12/18, 10:42 AM, dmmueller@xxxxxxx wrote:

and should I be embarrassed to say, we still have some of those cycle
programs still running.... and with each upgrade, they still work :)

Nothing to be embarrassed about.

What should be embarrassing is when people AVOID using The Cycle in
situations where it is the correct tool for the job . . . and end up
"walking" through a file when they can "ride" through it (or writing

their

own "do until the user exits" loop when, simply by tying LR to whatever

the

user does to exit, e.g., tying it to INKC, they can use a built-in
event-loop).

--
JHHL

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Jeff Crosby
VP Information Systems
UniPro FoodService/Dilgard
P.O. Box 13369
Ft. Wayne, IN 46868-3369
260-422-7531
direct.dilgardfoods.com

The opinions expressed are my own and not necessarily the opinion of my
company. Unless I say so.
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