Reviving zombie thread; preserving the entire exchange so that those
subscribing via email can remember what was happening.
The original thread apparently converged on the notion that SF99711 did
not download the very latest group PTFs. Dawn May (waves at Dawn!)
posted a blog wherein she quotes directly from the IBM i PTF team:
'This PTF group includes the latest level of all PTF groups for the
release except the Cumulative PTF Package group.' ...and... 'Since the
latest level of each PTF group is downloaded, SF99711 itself will rarely
be updated—only when a new PTF group is added for 7.1.'
This matches my experience exactly. I ordered 99711 in December and I
got all the PTF groups updated as of the date I placed that order. It
was not an archive of PTF groups as of August.
On 12/20/2013 12:16 PM, DrFranken wrote:
For this and other reasons already mentioned, I have not and do not
intend ever to order SF99711. Not saying it's not useful for some
situations but it's not what people think it is and that alone is
dangerous for many.
It "SOUNDS" like a distribution list concept that on the fly collects
all the stuff on the list and that's what you get. But it's not, its a
periodically collected group of other groups. And that dings it's value
- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis
On 12/20/2013 10:49 AM, Steinmetz, Paul wrote:
Kirk and Rob,
1) There may be some confusion with SF99711.
I reread all the threads, SF99711 details, (see below) , and results
of my actual SF99711 order experience.
SF99711 was last updated 8/9/13. Just because a new level for a group
is available does not mean that SF99711 will be updated.
SF99711 does actually order ALL of the latest group levels that are
currently included, as of 8/9/13. On 12/17, SF99709 Group Hyper,
Level 99 became available. My SNDPTFORD of SF99711 on 12/17 resulted
in SF99709 level 99 being downloaded, not installed. On 12/17 SF99709
contained only 1 PTF MF57761 which was downloaded, Savf file only status.
If a new group would come out, or if a group was removed, then SF99711
would be updated accordingly.
Description: This PTF group includes all PTF groups for the current
IBM i release except the Cumulative PTF Package PTF group. The PTF
groups are included by listing them as related PTF groups. Use
option 9 (Display related PTF groups) on the Work with PTF Groups
(WRKPTFGRP) command to display the included PTF groups.
Planned Update Schedule: Updates to this PTF group will occur if a
PTF group is added or removed for the current IBM i rel
2) The main reason I prefer SNDPTFORD is that it can be automated. You
can't do that that with fix central. I did request an automated
process for this.
I also requested SF99712, any PTF NOT part of group or cume. We know
this will probably not happen.
Both methods will fail, I've had bad experiences with each. Last week
while preparing the LPARs for the weekend IPL, I found some PTFs,
Specific Products and Functions, not part of any group, but part of
recommended fixes. I tried downloading via fix central, however, new
version of Java needed to be installed on my PC, well the Java install
failed, so couldn't order the PTFs via fix central.
I also had SNDPTFORD fail, twice in a row. Next order was successful.
For multiple LPARS, another option I experimented with is in
Navigator, Fixes, Compare and Update.
3) We all have are preferred PTF methods, and we are all always
looking for ways to improve the order process, get the PTFs ordered
with minimal time spent.
The most frustrating thing I've found is that shortly after an IPL to
apply MF PTFs, I discovere an MF PTF (that will need an IPL) that I
should have, not part of a group, not on hyper list etc.
My new approach for checking for new PTFs, PTF Cover Letters by Date.
I wish there was happy PTFing, I'm still searching.
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, December 20, 2013 7:21 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF SF99711
I know it's popular on this list to read a sentence or two and skip
the rest. Heck, we're all busy people. But you really need to read
Kirk's message in it's entirety.
When you order group SF99711 you do NOT get all of the latest group
PTF's!!! They RARELY update SF99711 and the only groups it contains
are the groups there were the latest at the time of the last regen of
It was last updated in August. Therefore it is several group levels
behind in hiper and much more.
Not just picking on any one person but I've seen so much skipping,
speed reading, dyslexia, etc that I'm starting to believe that I need to
- break up replies. One point per each reply. This will also allow
threading to break off, if necessary, on that point.
- Use lists as much as possible. People with dyslexia can handle a b
c much easier than: a, b, c
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
Kendallville, IN 46755
From: "Steinmetz, Paul"
Date: 12/19/2013 05:01 PM
Subject: RE: PTF SF99711
1) I have scheduled jobs setup in AJS to auto order all groups every
other Tuesday. (Tuesday is the day the hyper group comes out)
I've had no issues with this, usually 5 to 10 minutes, some days may take
longer, I've seen up to 45 minutes.
On V7R1 - SNDPTFORD PTFID((SF99711 *ONLYPRD *ONLYRLS))
On V6R1 - SNDPTFORD PTFID((SF99626 *ONLYPRD
*ONLYRLS) (SF99609 *ONLYPRD *ONLYRLS) (SF99608 *ONLYPRD *ONLYRLS)
*ONLYPRD *ONLYRLS) (SF99562 *ONLYPRD *ONLYRLS) (SF99356 *ONLYPRD
(SF99354 *ONLYPRD *ONLYRLS) (SF99352 *ONLYPRD *ONLYRLS) (SF99187
*ONLYRLS) (SF99144 *ONLYPRD *ONLYRLS) (SF99115 *ONLYPRD *ONLYRLS)
2) I've had issues in the past when trying to install the HTTP groups
immediate. Even though most PTFs state immediate is OK, (emergency use
only) IBM recommended that ALL PTS should be applied with delayed at next
IPL, to avoid intermittent install and apply issues.
mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Kirk Goins
Sent: Thursday, December 19, 2013 4:44 PM
Subject: PTF SF99711
May be this has been hashed out here before and I missed it but here
couple of items I have run across.
First of all for my sites that have good bandwidth I like to use
to an Image Catalog. It is pretty much enter the cmd and forget. I come
back the next day and I have my image(s) and away I go. I will typically
order the CUME and then order the groups I want for that machine.
I have tried recently ( a couple of times ) to use SF99711 to pickup all
the groups I needed without having to specify each one.. I have had a
couple of issues.
#1 After the CUME and Groups have been applied and the system has
completed ALL the required IPLs most of not al the groups show Not
Installed in WRKPTFGRP. If I simply do a SNDPTFORD SF99711 and let it
download to *SERVICE it says No PTFs Ordered ( or whatever ) but
not shows the groups Installed.
A second issues I ran into today. I had used SF99711 within the last
couple of weeks, but while trying to use the HTTP Admin server to install
WAS855 I was having problems. Looking at the group levels my HTTP server
was at level 19. It should have been at 23 or even 24 if SF99711 had done
what it advertises.
In discussing this with IBM it turns out SF99711 doesn't automagically
the LATEST Group PTFs. It has to be updated by the PTF Gods at IBM to
Include whatever groups and whatever levels they want included iin the
*Per the current Cover Letter*
SF99711: 710 All PTF Groups except Cumulative PTF Package PTF Group
Level: 2 Last Updated: 8/9/13
So based on IBM Tech Support Comments and the date above. I would not
expect to see any PTFs added to groups since 8/9/13.
My hope when ordering SF99711 via SNDPTFORD or vis FixCentral and
accessing my system is that A. It would check my WRKPTFGRP makers and
order any that needed updating.
B. Decide if I had installed a new product and if there was a group PTF
for that product ( say WAS8.5 ) include that in my order.
Another side comment from support. They do not recommend using SNDPTFORD
for large PTF orders like CUMEs and GROUPs. They say they have more
with missing PTFs etc than by using Fix Central and then FTPing or using
Any Order with care.