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I would like to mention a scenario I see that is sort of relevant. I have a client that has bought two midrange computers. One in 1998, and the other in 1982 or 1983. He has a few users, less than 20. He has no maintenance contract on it, just on the line printer. He uses Windows workstations. His applications are A/P, A/R, payroll, manufacturing, inventory costing, and a second set of similar applications for his trucking business which runs 20 or 30 over the road tractor trailers. His annual TCO for the iSeries is basically my charges, which are moderate. His Windows costs are modest too, but he does have greater costs with them than with the iSeries. He and I have discussed costs and why he is using the iSeries. His answer is "I am busy, I don't want to be listening to computer problems. They installed this software over 20 years ago and it doesn't owe me a thing, but it does keep my business for me. I listen to my competitors and I am happy to be where I am." --------------------------------- Booth Martin http://www.martinvt.com --------------------------------- -------Original Message------- From: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion Date: 09/03/05 17:45:27 To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion' Subject: RE: iSeries TCO v NT server farm > From: Walden H. Leverich > > Now, before you reply with something like "bet you need more that two > servers for performance reasons" or "but you need super big servers, not > small ones" I'll say this, you may indeed -- then again you may not. And > it's not really possible for us to debate that without knowing specific > details and specific requirements of specific applications. Sorry, but that's EXACTLY the point, Walden. We have to do this, because Windows proponents tend to keep changing their story depending on what they're trying to prove. However, they ALWAYS fall into one of several fallacies. If they want to say Windows is inexpensive, they use the Single-CPU Wintel Fallacy. In this line of illogic, the arguer talks about replacing an iSeries with a single-CPU Dell machine. Of course, this is absolutely ludicrous. There is no single-CPU Wintel box can replace an iSeries, or run a decent sized business. You need eight, or ten, or in your case, twelve. Then there is the HA issue, in which a single machine provides HA to multiple boxes. This is the Holographic Redundancy Fallacy, which I debunked in the previous message. > Hopefully I've cleared up a thing or two about my mythical world. <G> You haven't cleared up anything. All you've said is that shops that can run on a single inexpensive Wintel machine should run on one (well, actually you said two, for HA). That's fine with me. But there isn't a shop out there bigger than a lemonade stand that can run on a sub-$10000 Windows system after you price in a couple of boxes and $4500 worth of software, and at that point you can buy a small iSeries and beat the crap out of the Wintel box in the number of users you can run. Am I overhyping? Am I mischaracterizing the bait-and-switch tactics of the Wintel advocates? All you need to do is look at the title of this thread: "iSeries TCO vs. NT server farm". As long as the issue is performance, Wintel zealots talk about server farms, but when it's price they immediately talk about some theoretical box you can buy from Dell that will run your business. You didn't even point out a model, because you want us to think it's one of those $2500 HOBO models when you know darn well that serious servers cost nearly $4000 for a machine with no RAID and no OS. Anyway, I'm tired of this argument. Really tired. All I wanted to point out was that there's no way one Windows box can provide HA to a server farm. I did that. You want to argue about the existence of the magical, mystical, mythical Dell machine, it makes a good bedtime story, but that's about it. Joe -- This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. .
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