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You can minimize the checkpoint time greatly. Programs and display files can be saved while active. Source cannot be updated during save-while-active. Segregating out your data objects makes a lot of sense. Al Al Barsa, Jr. Barsa Consulting Group, LLC 400>390 "i" comes before "p", "x" and "z" e gads Our system's had more names than Elizabeth Taylor! 914-251-1234 914-251-9406 fax http://www.barsaconsulting.com http://www.taatool.com http://www.as400connection.com "Jones, John \(US\)" <John.Jones@xxxxx To l.com> "Midrange Systems Technical Sent by: Discussion" midrange-l-bounce <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> s@xxxxxxxxxxxx cc Subject 05/27/2005 02:01 RE: Help me Justify iSeries PM Please respond to Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@midra nge.com> Updates are possible, naturally, since the apps are still up. We've tried to pick the 'quietest' time of day, but the app is being globally deployed so there are no large windows available to take the system down. Right now we are using BRMS and are doing a full *ALLUSR save. But once we're really in production I'll likely speed up the checkpointing process by breaking it down to 2 groups: production data and everything else. The production data should checkpoint in under 5 minutes. If need be, I can probably scrape up that small of a window. Luckily we are not a 24x7 operation. 24x5.5 is more like it. So I will do a normal '21' save every weekend. -- John A. Jones, CISSP Americas Information Security Officer Jones Lang LaSalle, Inc. V: +1-630-455-2787 F: +1-312-601-1782 john.jones@xxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Al Barsa Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 12:35 PM To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion Subject: RE: Help me Justify iSeries John, I hope you are not updating during the checkpointing period. Al Al Barsa, Jr. Barsa Consulting Group, LLC 400>390 "i" comes before "p", "x" and "z" e gads Our system's had more names than Elizabeth Taylor! 914-251-1234 914-251-9406 fax http://www.barsaconsulting.com http://www.taatool.com http://www.as400connection.com "Jones, John \(US\)" <John.Jones@xxxxx To l.com> "Midrange Systems Technical Sent by: Discussion" midrange-l-bounce <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx> s@xxxxxxxxxxxx cc Subject 05/27/2005 01:15 RE: Help me Justify iSeries PM Please respond to Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@midra nge.com> Don/Walden - Are you on V5R3 and have you two investigated the fast checkpointing/save-while-active for your shops? We're checkpointing 203 libraries (a full *ALLUSR) with many thousands of objects in under 20 minutes and are getting a good save every night. No downtime whatsoever. (And Joe and I are going back and forth about 35GB disk while you guys apparently have at least twice the amount of space needed for data alone...) -- John A. Jones, CISSP Americas Information Security Officer Jones Lang LaSalle, Inc. V: +1-630-455-2787 F: +1-312-601-1782 john.jones@xxxxxxxxxx -----Original Message----- From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 11:49 AM To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion Subject: RE: Help me Justify iSeries EXACTLY! :) On Fri, 27 May 2005, Walden H. Leverich wrote: > >ALSO, I could spinoff my SAVF's to that server for some production > >libs and reduce my downtime...etc.... > > We do our nightly saves (iSeries) to SAVF then FTP those save files to > a PC Server. That PC Server is then backed up as part of our nightly > backup sweep to tape. Works like a champ (yes, that means I've > recovered from them). Obviously you still have iSeries tape for the > IPL in a disaster recovery case. > > -Walden > > > ------------ > Walden H Leverich III > Tech Software > (516) 627-3800 x11 > WaldenL@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > http://www.TechSoftInc.com > > Quiquid latine dictum sit altum viditur. > (Whatever is said in Latin seems profound.) > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Don > Sent: Friday, 27 May, 2005 12:10 > To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion > Subject: RE: Help me Justify iSeries > > > > Well, Joe, frankly, I can put a decent intel server, with RAID5 SATA > on my net to serve as a repository at 1gig xfer rate...with just over > a terabyte of useable space....and do so for probably less than $3k... > ALSO, I could spinoff my SAVF's to that server for some production > libs and reduce my downtime...etc....I'm thinking of upgrading one of > my servers to do just this! > > So, IMPUHO (in my Politically UNCORRECT humble opinion), your solution > isn't that far off...in terms of just a disk data repository sitting > out in the ether... I just wish like hell I could do the same > config/pricing with a i5!!! > > Don in DC > > ----------------------------- > > On Fri, 27 May 2005, Joe Pluta wrote: > > > Hey! > > > > Don't go taking my name in vain here, Jim. I really hate when > > people try to slot me when I offer alternatives. If I say Java > > isn't good > for > > everything, I get labeled anti-Java. If I say RPG isn't good for > > some things, I get labeled anti-RPG. I mention that Wintel might be > cheaper > > for some things, and (you could've predicted it) someone starts > labeling > > me as anti-iSeries. > > > > I think I was pretty clear about how this was a business decision. > > Before you start throwing out buzzwords like "security" and > > "critical update and maint time", exactly how much time do you think > > you need to spend on securing and maintaining a file server, even if > > the files are HTTP accessible? It's nowhere near what's needed for > > a web > application > > server. > > > > "joe's cheap pc" is still WAY less expensive than the corresponding > > iSeries disk. If you need high availability, then great, you need > > another PC. And at that point (and only at that point) the > > administration begins to become an issue, primarily because I don't > know > > of a good way to fail over from one PC to another, although I'm sure > > there's a network appliance that would do it. > > > > In any case, "joe's cheap pc" is still cheap, and is still a viable > > alternative to expensive iSeries disk when storing static binary data. > > It may not be the right alternative for a given business, but it has > to > > be looked at, especially when you're trying to keep the overall > > price > of > > your iSeries solution to a minimum. > > > > Joe > > > > > > > From: Jim Franz > > > > > > (just like joe's cheap pc that suddenly got more expensive when > > > you add reliability requirements...and no > > mention > > > of security, HA, the critical update & maint time, & on & on). > > > > -- > > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) > > mailing > list > > To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, > > unsubscribe, or change list options, > > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l > > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please > > take a moment to review the archives at > > http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. > > > > -- > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing > list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, > unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take > a moment to review the archives at > http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. > > > -- > This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing > list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, > unsubscribe, or change list options, > visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l > or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take > a moment to review the archives at > http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. > -- This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@xxxxxxxxxxxx To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options, visit: http://lists.midrange.com/mailman/listinfo/midrange-l or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l. 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