|
midrange.com
Mark, that southern charm cums frum Birmingham, Alabama!! rat 'chere!!!
... 'course some days that Steel Magnolia shows up :}
************
Have a great day! and .... Enthusiasm is like a ripple in the water... It
spreads!
Anne C. Lucas, Project Exec, iSeries Nation and iSeries Marketing -
www.ibm.com/eserver/nation1
205/823-4831 T/L 537-9968, eFax: 603-687-8053, 800/223-3907 Pager
Admin Assist: Alice Sebastiano Telephone: (914) 642-4109, tie line
224-4109 Fax: (914) 642-6976, tie line 224-6976
midrange-l-request@m
idrange.com To:
midrange-l@midrange.com
Sent by: cc:
midrange-l-admin@mid Subject: MIDRANGE-L digest,
Vol 1 #1681 - 11 msgs
range.com
04/05/2002 01:00 PM
Please respond to
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Today's Topics:
1. RE: Customer problems (Mark Allen)
2. RE: qzshsystem api (David Morris)
3. Re: MIDRANGE-L digest, Vol 1 #1679 - 10 msgs (Vernon Hamberg)
4. RE: Need to scan files (Vernon Hamberg)
5. RE: Need to scan files (Vernon Hamberg)
6. CAE - Windows XP (Rodriguez, Jose Amable)
7. RE: qzshsystem api (Vernon Hamberg)
8. Re: RE: RE: ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! (Mike Naughton)
9. RE: qzshsystem api (David Morris)
10. Fw: Re: Huge x86 servers vs. Alpha, SPARC, Power{3/4} (Adam
Lang)
11. Re: Why my system WAS so sluggish! (Philipp Rusch)
--__--__--
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 13:00:52 -0500
From: Mark Allen <allenmark@nu-z.net>
Subject: RE: Customer problems
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Organization: Wilkes Telephone and Electric
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Southern charm, where'd you get that Anne, GA, MS, SC, NC???
Mark Allen
I.S. Manager
Wilkes Telephone & Electric
A Dycom Company
Phone: (706) 678-9565
Email: allenmark@nu-z.net
http://www.nu-z.net
:-----Original Message-----
:From: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
:[mailto:midrange-l-admin@midrange.com] On Behalf Of BOBC@ri-net.com
:Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:46 PM
:To: midrange-l@midrange.com
:Subject: Re: Customer problems
:
:
:
:Anne,
:
:I totally love you! You are magnificient. Must be that
:southern charm...
:
:Bob Cancilla
:Republic Indemnity Company of America
:(818)382-1023
:
:
:
:
: "Anne Lucas"
: <alucas@us.ibm.com> To:
: Sent by: cc:
: midrange-l-admin@mi Subject:
:Customer problems
: drange.com
:
:
: 04/05/2002 08:45 AM
: Please respond to
: midrange-l
:
:
:
:
:
:
:The iSeries Customer Satisfaction team in Rochester worked with me to
:create a "hot line" just for the iSeries Nation community.
:This is not
:for technical support problems, but for issues such as those I
:read about yesterday and today where you can't get someone to
:help with pricing,
:upgrades, sales, you want to buy, no one will take your money, etc.!!
:
:When you complete the form on this page it goes immediately to
:a member of this Customer Satisfaction team ... they respond
:very quickly ... sometimes within the hour the have a problem solved!!
:
:Here's the url ..... am moving it back to the front page of
:the home page ....
:http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/iseries/nation/contact/hot
line_info.html
Also, sometimes I monitor all the listservers, other times I depend on
others to send me problems .... so if in doubt, please forward any
issues to me .... and I'll do my very best to resolve.... and figure out
how to avoid the
Thank you!!
************
Have a great day! and .... Enthusiasm is like a ripple in the water...
It spreads!
Anne C. Lucas, Project Exec, iSeries Nation and iSeries Marketing -
www.ibm.com/eserver/nation1 205/823-4831 T/L 537-9968, eFax:
603-687-8053, 800/223-3907 Pager
Admin Assist: Alice Sebastiano Telephone: (914) 642-4109, tie line
224-4109 Fax: (914) 642-6976, tie line 224-6976
_______________________________________________
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com To subscribe,
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_______________________________________________
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com To subscribe,
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--__--__--
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 11:00:40 -0700
From: "David Morris" <David.Morris@plumcreek.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: RE: qzshsystem api
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Joe,
I have indeed tried appending a x'00' as well as
specifying options(*string). I really wish the
message would tell me what it is trying to run.
My best guess is that the command needs to be
passed as ASCII. I hate to write a wrapper
for the translation API only to find out it
is something else.
Thanks,
David Morris
>>> joepluta@PlutaBrothers.com 04/05/02 10:37 AM >>>
> From: Joel Fritz
>
> Does anyone have any experience with QzshSystem()? I was playing
around
> with it yesterday and it worked but it didn't. Using the
> prototype below, I
> passed in a command string, the call executed successfully--well, it
> returned 7--and nothing happend. I tried sending a directory listing
to a
> file and calling a program that created a small text file.
>
> Dqzhsystem pr 10i 0 extproc('QzshSystem')
> D cmdstring * value options(*string)
I haven't tried it, but I know Unix commands like nulls at the end. Did
you
make sure to append a null (x'00') at the end of your command string?
Joe
_______________________________________________
This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
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--__--__--
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:11:19 -0600
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
From: Vernon Hamberg <vhamberg@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: MIDRANGE-L digest, Vol 1 #1679 - 10 msgs
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Is it appropriate to send InfoCenter issues through this channel?
BTW, thanks for your efforts.
At 11:49 AM 4/5/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Dare, I'll do my very best! .... perhaps we can get to the root cause and
>solve that!
>
>*********************
>Message: 6
>From: "Dare @ Work" <oludare@ix.netcom.com>
>To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
>Subject: Re: Customer problems
>Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 11:53:26 -0500
>Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
>
>Great Anne,
>
>I hope you will be able to handle the barrage of messages you will be
>receiving. There are a lot of dissatisfied IBM customers here on the list
>and out there.
>
>
>************
>Have a great day! and .... Enthusiasm is like a ripple in the water... It
>spreads!
>
>
>Anne C. Lucas, Project Exec, iSeries Nation and iSeries Marketing -
>www.ibm.com/eserver/nation1
>205/823-4831 T/L 537-9968, eFax: 603-687-8053, 800/223-3907 Pager
>
>Admin Assist: Alice Sebastiano Telephone: (914) 642-4109, tie line
>224-4109 Fax: (914) 642-6976, tie line 224-6976
>
>_______________________________________________
>This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
>To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
>visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
>or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
>Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
>at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
--__--__--
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:16:14 -0600
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
From: Vernon Hamberg <vhamberg@attbi.com>
Subject: RE: Need to scan files
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
FYI, we show QShell interpreter as opt 30 of 5722SS1, *COMPATIBLE. CUM
level is 2036, so it's not actually at latest level.
At 12:56 PM 4/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>Well Vernon, I guess you're just "special" ;-)
>
>I have tried this on both our Production and Test boxes.
>They're both a V5R1 but at different CUM levels (Test
>box is the most current - latest CUM).
>
>Think I'll wait till the Systems Programmer comes back
>on Monday so I can get the CUM levels for both machines
>and then will give IBM tech support a call.
>
>This is really strange. BTW my grep syntax is identical
>to yours - as would be expected.
>
>Terry
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vernon Hamberg [mailto:vhamberg@attbi.com]
> > Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 12:03 PM
> > To: midrange-l@midrange.com
> > Subject: RE: Need to scan files
> >
> >
> > By listing multiple members. I tried wildcards, but no good.
> > Then ran grep
> > with -h flag to get help text. Got syntax.
> >
> > I'm at v5r1. Have no idea why Terry's attempts are not working.
> >
> > Here's a listing of what I did, using F6:
> >
> > $
> >
> > pwd
> >
> > /Vern
> >
> > $
> >
> > cd
> > /qsys.lib/vern.lib/splf.file
> > $
> >
> > ls
> >
> > CMPEXDFN.MBR PEXDFN.MBR
> >
> > $
> >
> > tail
> > pexdfn.mbr
> > *ALL
> >
> > Selected MI Complex
> > Instructions:
> > *NONE
> >
> > Selected
> > Events:
> > Category : TRCTYPE - Command Trace
> > Types
> > SLTEVT -
> >
> > Category : BASEVT - Base
> > Events
> > PMCO PMCO - Performance
> > Measurement Counter
> > Overflow
> > Category : DSKSVREVT - Dasd Server
> > Events
> > USER SRV - Service
> >
> > $
> >
> > tail
> > *.mbr
> >
> > tail: 001-0023 Error found opening file *.mbr. No such path or
> > directory.
> > $
> >
> > grep
> > -h
> >
> > grep: 001-3010 usage: grep [-E|-F] [-c|-l|-q] [-ihnsvwxy] [-e
> > pattern_list]
> > [-f pattern_file] [pattern] [file ...]
> > $
> >
> > grep "PMCP"
> > *.mbr
> >
> > grep: 001-0023 Error found opening file *.mbr. No such path or
> > directory.
> > $
> >
> > ls
> >
> > CMPEXDFN.MBR PEXDFN.MBR
> >
> > $
> >
> > grep "PMCP" cmpexdfn.mbr
> > pexdfn.mbr
> >
> > $
> >
> > grep "PMCO" cmpexdfn.mbr
> > pexdfn.mbr
> >
> > cmpexdfn.mbr:I
> > - =C0 8BASEVT =F7 ! !
> > PMCO I
> > =C0 \ D - =C0 BA
> > VT 0 ! ! PMC 0000007
> > 0000007
> > pexdfn.mbr: PMCO PMCO -
> > Performance Measurement
> > Counter Overflow
> > pexdfn.mbr: PMCO PMCO -
> > Performance Measurement
> > Counter Overflow
> > pexdfn.mbr: PMCO PMCO -
> > Performance Measurement
> > Counter Overflow
> > $
> >
>_______________________________________________
>This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing lis
=
t
>To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
>visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
>or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
>Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
>at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
--__--__--
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:18:47 -0600
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
From: Vernon Hamberg <vhamberg@attbi.com>
Subject: RE: Need to scan files
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
To repeat, I've got it going on both source and data. Strrrrange.
At 07:45 AM 4/5/02 -0500, you wrote:
>This is a multipart message in MIME format.
>--
>[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ]
>Interesting. I tried it here and got the same results as you. Nix on the
>data pf's, but ok on the source pf's.
>
>I know very little about Unix. So this command will not search through a
>directory? Thus no ability to search through all the members is a set of
>files. Therefore it is probably not worth the fight to get IBM to have
>this working on data pf's.
>
>Rob Berendt
>--
>"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
>safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
>Benjamin Franklin
>
>
>
>
>Winchester Terry <terry.winchester@raymondcorp.com>
>Sent by: midrange-l-admin@midrange.com
>04/05/2002 06:49 AM
>Please respond to midrange-l
>
>
> To: "'midrange-l@midrange.com'" <midrange-l@midrange.com>
> cc:
> Fax to:
> Subject: RE: Need to scan files
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Vernon Hamberg [mailto:vhamberg@attbi.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 6:40 PM
> > To: midrange-l@midrange.com
> > Subject: RE: Need to scan files
> >
> >
> > Don't have QSHELL installed on this system. Have you tried
> > extending the path to the member?
>
>It appears to work on *source* physical files, but not with
>regular physical files.
>
> > A file is treated like a directory, the member is the
> > real data part.
>
>The file=directory theory is interesting:
>
>cd DSIPICKS.FILE
>$
>ls
>DSIPICKS.MBR
>$
>tail DSIPICKS.MBR
>
>tail: 001-0023 Error found opening file DSIPICKS.MBR. Operation not
>supported.
>
>Also got the same error for the grep command.
>
>On the bright side, maybe it will work in V5R2 ;-)
>
>Terry
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
>list
>To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
>visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
>or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
>Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
>at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
>To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
>visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
>or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
>Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
>at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
--__--__--
Message: 6
From: "Rodriguez, Jose Amable" <jarodriguez@grupom.com.do>
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Subject: CAE - Windows XP
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 14:16:29 -0400
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Hello,
Wondering if anyone has overcome the issue of the need to have
Administrative rights in Windows XP to be able to use Client Access Express
V5R1 ????
Thanks in advance....
--__--__--
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:30:36 -0600
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
From: Vernon Hamberg <vhamberg@attbi.com>
Subject: RE: qzshsystem api
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
From the text on the API, it seems it is running qsh with the command you
give it. qsh works with EBCDIC, so that should not be the problem. But
we've all been shoulded on, right?
It does mention that the return value is from waitpid(). It's actually the
second parameter on that API. There are a number of macros (C-type) in
member WAIT of file SYS in QSYSINC. How are you at converting C macros to
RPG? Heh! Let me know if you need help there. They're binary ANDs of the
value with some masks.
You might try the C mailing list.
At 11:00 AM 4/5/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Joe,
>
>I have indeed tried appending a x'00' as well as
>specifying options(*string). I really wish the
>message would tell me what it is trying to run.
>My best guess is that the command needs to be
>passed as ASCII. I hate to write a wrapper
>for the translation API only to find out it
>is something else.
>
>Thanks,
>
>David Morris
>
> >>> joepluta@PlutaBrothers.com 04/05/02 10:37 AM >>>
> > From: Joel Fritz
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience with QzshSystem()? I was playing
>around
> > with it yesterday and it worked but it didn't. Using the
> > prototype below, I
> > passed in a command string, the call executed successfully--well, it
> > returned 7--and nothing happend. I tried sending a directory listing
>to a
> > file and calling a program that created a small text file.
> >
> > Dqzhsystem pr 10i 0 extproc('QzshSystem')
> > D cmdstring * value options(*string)
>
>I haven't tried it, but I know Unix commands like nulls at the end. Did
>you
>make sure to append a null (x'00') at the end of your command string?
>
>Joe
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
>list
>To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
>visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
>or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
>Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
>at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>This is the Midrange Systems Technical Discussion (MIDRANGE-L) mailing
list
>To post a message email: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, or change list options,
>visit: http://lists.midrange.com/cgi-bin/listinfo/midrange-l
>or email: MIDRANGE-L-request@midrange.com
>Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
>at http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l.
--__--__--
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 13:38:52 -0500
Subject: Re: RE: RE: ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
From: "Mike Naughton" <mnaughton@juddwire.com>
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Actually, my comment was meant tongue-in-cheek -- the situation that Joe
was describing just seemed so . . . . Dilbertish? . . . . that I had to
laugh (spent last night at a school building presentation, so right now
I'm looking for laughs any place I can find them :-)
Of course, Joe has explained that things weren't quite as surreal as I
thought they were . . . .
midrange-l@midrange.com writes:
> I'm not sure
>whether you're being tongue-in-cheek or not, but you're right.
Mike Naughton
Senior Programmer/Analyst
Judd Wire, Inc.
124 Turnpike Road
Turners Falls, MA 01376
413-863-4357 x444
mnaughton@juddwire.com
--__--__--
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 11:51:47 -0700
From: "David Morris" <David.Morris@plumcreek.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: RE: qzshsystem api
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Vern,
I did try translating the string to ASCII,
no go. I will look at WAIT to see if it
brings out any clues.
Thanks,
David Morris
>>> vhamberg@attbi.com 04/05/02 11:43 AM >>>
From the text on the API, it seems it is running qsh with the command
you
give it. qsh works with EBCDIC, so that should not be the problem. But
we've all been shoulded on, right?
It does mention that the return value is from waitpid(). It's actually
the
second parameter on that API. There are a number of macros (C-type) in
member WAIT of file SYS in QSYSINC. How are you at converting C macros
to
RPG? Heh! Let me know if you need help there. They're binary ANDs of
the
value with some masks.
You might try the C mailing list.
At 11:00 AM 4/5/02 -0700, you wrote:
>Joe,
>
>I have indeed tried appending a x'00' as well as
>specifying options(*string). I really wish the
>message would tell me what it is trying to run.
>My best guess is that the command needs to be
>passed as ASCII. I hate to write a wrapper
>for the translation API only to find out it
>is something else.
>
>Thanks,
>
>David Morris
--__--__--
Message: 10
From: "Adam Lang" <aalang@rutgersinsurance.com>
To: <midrange-l@midrange.com>
Subject: Fw: Re: Huge x86 servers vs. Alpha, SPARC, Power{3/4}
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 13:47:43 -0500
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Ack!
This was a message on a Linux server group I am on.
The guy was asking for ideas on where to go for a Linux server. It would
be
running a database ... they were speced out with Dell for about $100K. He
actually wanted RISC as opposed to x86.
I told him go for the AS/400 running Linux.
IBM didn't return his calls.
Adam Lang
Systems Engineer
Rutgers Casualty Insurance Company
http://www.rutgersinsurance.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "JW" <jw@centraltexasit.com>
To: <SERVER-LINUX@LISTS.NETSPACE.ORG>
Sent: Friday, April 05, 2002 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: Huge x86 servers vs. Alpha, SPARC, Power{3/4}
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
>
> AL >Buy an AS/400 and run Linux on it.
> AL >
> AL >You'll have RISC architecture.
> AL >
> AL >You'll have the BEST hardware for DB/file performance.
> AL >
> AL >It's in your price range.
> AL >
> AL >You'll be cool.
>
> Shoulda, Coulda Woulda....
> but IBM failed to return 2 phone calls.
> Compaq (Alpha) was quite snobby over the phone, and didn't have exatly
what we wanted
> (we would have had to go higher or lower).
>
> Sun OTHO treaded us very nicely (as did Dell, of course) and it looks
like
we're going to get a Sun Fire v880 with 4 CPUs.
>
> I was actually rooting for IBM first, Alpha second, SUn 3rd, but ho well,
that's life.
>
> It's all but purchased. Don't think we'll put Linux on it, at least not
right now.
>
> Too bad. I hear administering Solaris isn't fun. Bettern tha
nAdministering WINNT though :-)
>
>
>
>
> - --
>
> - ----------------------------------------------------
> Jonathan Wilson
> System Administrator
> Clickpatrol.com
> Cedar Creek Software http://www.cedarcreeksoftware.com
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org
>
> iD8DBQE8rfBtW3F87Q8SQQARAoRKAJ4x0BL7n2qyskrgijxXBVwhyzfSPQCbBoje
> 9Nq3/G41e1O2hK4A2w2Rfho=
> =Jfuu
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
>
>
> NetSpace LISTSERV(R) software donated by L-Soft, Inc.
http://www.lsoft.com
>
--__--__--
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 20:57:51 +0200
From: Philipp Rusch <Philipp.Rusch@rusch-edv.de>
Organization: EDV Beratung Rusch / EDP Consulting Rusch / Rosbach, Germany
To: midrange-l@midrange.com
Subject: Re: Why my system WAS so sluggish!
Reply-To: midrange-l@midrange.com
I had problems at different customers when the battery pack of the RAID
controller's cache-RAM was at its end of life. There was an SRC in the
problem log, but no text giving any hint that it could be the cache
controller
or the battery on it. At the first occasion of this (like you noticed a
super
slow motion system and obvious hw-errors and no "abusing" pgms), I called
IBM and they sent a real guru to us: he saw the log and said. "Ok. I know
this, I'm going back to the car to get a battery pack for the controller."
This was a model 170 with a 2740 RAID-controller running V4R3 (last year)
and I don't know if the second level text of that SST message has been
improved.
The same problem happend to another customer short time after, but
that time I already knew ... ;-) (model 720 with a 2748 controller).
Regards from germany, Philipp Rusch
Rick Rayburn schrieb:
> Thanks to everyone who contributed their thoughts and information to this
> thread. The 400 community is a great "nation" of people and, as we all
know,
> the 400 is a damn good box to make a living with...now if we can only
> convince IBM!
>
> The reason for my sluggishness turned out to be a bad battery attached to
> one of the I/O cards. There was a message logged in QHST informing of a
> damaged I/O card but alas, it was only 2 lines and no more! So if you
> scrolled past it as I initially did...Too bad that message is not
repeated
> as happens when an ASP threshhold percentage is being challenged. Boy,
did
> it slow us down and it appears as if there was absolutely ZERO reflection
of
> this within the software tools IBM has provided us. Still, I wouldn't
trade
> in my career on the 400 for any other box and with all of the talented
> people in our user group, nothing can escape us for too long!
>
> Thanks again,
>
> Rick Rayburn
>
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