Re: *** ADMIN: Consultants forum?

James, et al...

Well, the consultants listserver is about ready to go.  Janet Krueger and
I will be riding herd on it.  We expect and demand that folkd act like
ladies and gentlement or we'll breakout the whips and .44
magnums....something we really don't want to have to do.  Guidelines will
be published and adheared to.

Stay tuned....

Don in DC

-------------

On Wed, 24 Nov 1999, James W Kilgore wrote:

> Mark,
> 
> I've apologized once before for being snotty on this topic, and do so
> again for you.
> 
> Maybe I've gotten an "attitude" about the possibility of this list due
> to the fact that I've never seen a proposed guidelines and have feared
> some of the worst.
> 
> I'm probably wrong in having these fears, in that such a list would be a
> subset of this list which contains some very fine people.
> 
> There are a few things I would like -not- discussed on this list:
> 1) legal advice, about contracts, subcontracting, labor laws or
> otherwise.  We aren't lawyers.  Source recommendations I feel are wholly
> acceptable.
> 2) tax advice/dodges. We aren't accountants. (besides, boasting could
> get you nailed <g>)  Again, source recommendations I feel are wholly
> acceptable.
> 3) pissing contests.  Not acceptable under any circumstances.  As a side
> note on this one, Harvard business school teaches by "case study".  To
> state a case, within context of governing conditions, and successful
> solutions -is- desirable so long as we keep the chest pounding to a low
> murmur.
> 
> In another post I mentioned that I would probably being eating crow for
> Thanksgiving about my prior attitude in all of this. Got any recipes?
> 
> There are a couple of other items that do pop up on midrange-l where
> RTFM does become a resounding response.
> Maybe another fear that I have is that this proposed forum would be
> viewed as a replacement for fundamental business education.  That, IMO,
> is something one should have -before- going into business.
> 
> To have a technical skill does not prepare one to engage in the free
> enterprise system.  Maybe the horror stories posted in the "programmer
> vs consultant/contractor" thread are partially a result of freelancers
> who don't know or care about business ethics.  Now, before anyone flames
> me on the use of the word "ethics" and tells me about it being a
> dog-eat-dog world out there and that ethics don't apply, I must say that
> I've only seen this attitude among the hungry.  And yes, ethical people
> must deal with the hungry ones.
> 
> Hungry contractor/consultants that will say whatever to get a job,
> staffers that will say whatever to keep their job and managers looking
> for a scapegoat.
> 
> But, anyway, in spirit of the holiday season, I'll respond to your
> points of interest:
> 
> Subcontracting:
> 
> First, check the laws within your state with competent counsel.
> I just snipped the whole bit about what I went through in Washington
> state about having subcontractors.  This state's laws may or may not
> apply to your situation and anything I post could be changed by the next
> legislative session.  Anything I would have to say on the subject would
> only be within context of state law AND my comfort level with these
> laws.  This is one you'll have to do without input from me. Sorry.
> 
> Rates for service in a particular area:
> 
> Here's what we did. Go to the airport and get a newspaper from the
> region in question.  Check the classifieds and make a few phone calls to
> find out what the going labor rate is for a Sr programmer/analyst.
> Multiply that by 3.  In an unknown territory we've found that to be a
> good starting point.  Reputation allows for increase.  A closed
> community may require that you take the labor rate *2 until you prove
> yourself.  BTW, you can live in Boston for 20 years and still be called
> an outsider!
> 
> Contracts:
> 
> Get copies of as many contracts as you can by hook or crook and cross
> compare them.  We did that and got a copy of "Data Processing Contracts:
> Structure, Contents, and Negotiation"  It points out, by clause, the
> lopsided to vendor wording, lopsided to client wording and a middle
> ground wording.  Build your own.  Decide in advance which points are or
> are not negotiable.  Review with competent legal counsel.
> 
> Oh, as a side note about legal counsel.  They hold a role akin to the
> role held by the Senate to the Presidency.  That is to "advise and
> consent".  Legal counsel, at best, will educate you on exposure.  NEVER
> acquiesce decision making to them.  It's your business.  Make your
> decisions, under advisement.  Remember that each time you sign the
> check. <g>
> 
> Peace,
> James W. Kilgore
> President
> Progressive Data Systems, Inc.
> Founded 1977
> 
> (that last line is a low murmur chest pounding <g>)
> 
> P.S. I can also see value in a related "resume" listing linked to this
> forum.  David's success in this list may allow AS/400 shops to focus on
> pertinent talent instead of searching the monster board. You're right.
> 
> Mark Lazarus wrote:
> > 
> > James,
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  OK, so why would you have a problem w/ this type of forum?
> > 
> 
> > >>
> > >>  Here's my opinion on this.  I think that it can be a useful forum.  This
> > >> would be especially true for the little guy (i.e. a 1 man consulting 
>shop.)
> > >>
> > >>  Some possible topics:
> > >>
> > >> - Subcontracting
> > >> - Rates for a service for a particular area
> > >> - Contract samples
> > >>
> > >>  IMHO, it should be allowed to post opportunities and consultants seeking
> > >> work.
> > 
> >   -mark
> >
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