RE: TR vs. Ethernet (was: IBM 8230 Token-Ring concentrator)

Simon
Regarding the TR/Ethernet  discussion
Manufacturers will  build  what the marketplace will buy.
The old adage of  build it and they will come  has  gone.
Economical  has a  reliability/useability factor. If these are
 important  then the offering selected might be different.
 "marketing-nomics = It  don't have to make sense - they
 just have to buy it- lots of it."

At 08:44 AM 1/3/99 +0100, Simon Coulter wrote:
>Hello Russ,
>
>That is a specious argument.  Beta is still used by professionals - VHS is
mostly the home market (and I'm 
>not certain the technical differences are so marked anyway).  Your
argument is just another in a long line 
>defending average technology rather than doing things properly.  That is
doing serious harm to the IT 
>industry.  It is why the desktop moved to Windoze, why the enterprise is
trying to move to NT, and "the world 
>is moving to Ethernet".  Ethernet has always been the preferred network
for Unix systems but that is not what 
>is driving the current popularity.  It is small networks running Novell or
Windoze and _that_ most definitely 
>is driven by price first and foremost.  These decisions are rarely made on
technical merit -- often because 
>the salesperson (or marketing/press coverage) leaves the non-technical
purchaser with the distinct impression 
>that "our cheaper product is just as good".
>
>We (as technologists) seem to be very good at suffering inferior
technology and improving it over time rather 
>than starting with a much better baseline and improving that.  Think where
we'd be if "the world" ran Power 
>Mac's or OS/2 on the desktop, Lan Server for the NOS (over fibre-optic
cable), and AS/400's as the enterprise 
>repository, and all programs were written in SmallTalk.  If we'd started
moving this way 10 years ago, oh, 
>what a wonderful place IT would be now!
>
>Just because "the world" is moving in some direction does not mean
thinking professionals should jump on the 
>lemming bandwagon -- it certainly is the easier route, though -- life in
the wilderness is tough.
>
>Yes, you would need to replace hardware to move to faster TR but you'd
need to do the same to move to faster 
>Ethernet -- for example, when/if Gigabit Ethernet arrives.  I would never
recommed Ethernet as a first 
>choice, even for small networks.
>
>Ethernet is cheaper for more reasons than simply "economies of scale".  As
I stated earlier it is cheaper to 
>build an Ethernet card because the components are not as intelligent,
therefore simpler, therefore cheaper.  
>Also the licensing arrangements are easier on manufacturers, therefore
easier for the "little guys".  TR is 
>more expensive than it _should_ be and that definitely is due to scale.
>
>The original author is already running TR network.  You are suggesting
they convert to Ethernet and I am 
>suggesting they stay with TR -- they have already made the correct choice.
 I can't answer the original 
>author's question because I don't know enough about his hardware.
>
>Regards,
>Simon Coulter.
>
>//----------------------------------------------------------
>// FlyByNight Software         AS/400 Technical Specialists
>// Phone: +61 3 9419 0175      Mobile: +61 0411 091 400
>// Fax:   +61 3 9419 0175      E-mail: shc@flybynight.com.au
>// 
>// Windoze should not be open at Warp speed.
>//--- forwarded letter
-------------------------------------------------------
>> X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2173.0
>> Date: Sat, 02 Jan 99 10:56:19 -0500
>> From: "rpopeil" <russ.popeil@ac.avnet.com>
>> To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
>> Reply-To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
>> Subject: RE: IBM 8230 Token-Ring concentrator
>> Importance: Normal
>
>> 
>> HI Simon
>> 
>> I do not dispute that Token ring is a better technology than Ethernet.
But I
>> would compare this to VHS and Beta max we know who one, it was not the
>> technology leader.  The world is going Ethernet, and Switched Routed 100mb
>> Ethernet with a properly designed network works fine even in large
networks.
>> You mention 100mg Token Ring. To move up to this you will probably have to
>> replace your nic's and MAU's. While I will I agree that Token ring is a
>> better technology, I would still recommend Ethernet. As far as price,
>> Ethernet is less expensive due to economies of scale. There is just more
>> manufactures, more competition and more users that are keeping costs down.
>> Look at how much Ethernet equipment is sold by Cisco Bay and Cabletron not
>> to mention all the little guys vs Token-Ring.
>> 
>
>+---
>| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
>| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
>| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
>| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
>| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
>+---
>
+---
| This is the Midrange System Mailing List!
| To submit a new message, send your mail to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com.
| To subscribe to this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-SUB@midrange.com.
| To unsubscribe from this list send email to MIDRANGE-L-UNSUB@midrange.com.
| Questions should be directed to the list owner/operator: david@midrange.com
+---