RE: 520 pricing structure

I've had conversations like this a lot.  I'm 31 (in case anyone wonders),
but have had the privilege of programming C, C++, JAVA, VB, COBOL, JCL, and
others. 

Here are my observations...

1. Most of the code I've ever worked on was bad code.  Someone was under
time constraints or hung over or whatever.  For me, bad procedural code is a
lot easier to deal with than bad object code.
2. Programming has become too academic.  We're all so insecure about what
our peers will say that we're afraid to say "No, dammit, I will NOT make a
new class for that tiny bit of functionality with no real re-use potential."
- or - "No, Dammit, I will not use that way-cool-groovy design pattern when
this perfectly simple thing will do nicely"
3. There is nothing inherently wrong or poorly performing about JAVA, but
the way that we implement it makes it so.  (too many classes doing to little
work - this may just be in the company / system that I'm working for /on
now, but sufferin' cats!!!)
4. COBOL & C were the pinnacle of programming.  Yep, I'm serious.  Why?
They had most of the reuse and good modular design characteristics of modern
OOP languages, without the overhead and clutter.
5. Web based programming is CICS with pretty pictures and without the
efficiency.

Neener neener neener. :)

Joe


 -----Original Message-----
From:   web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:web400-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]  On
Behalf Of Joe Pluta
Sent:   Wednesday, July 20, 2005 12:33 PM
To:     'Web Enabling the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject:        RE: [WEB400] 520 pricing structure

> From: albartell
> 
> I just don't like how you setup your tiers (multiple languages)
> and I don't care to argue about it because we both have our minds set.

Yeah, but you're wrong <g>.  Seriously, if you don't like multiple
languages then we'll get your rocker set up at the Old Programmer's
Home, because you certainly won't be doing anything new or
revolutionary.


> >(Literally.  I just installed a system using my thin-veneer JSP
approach
> and we're getting sub-second response time on 300-record queries.  We
> downloaded over 8000 records to the browser in around 10 seconds.)
> 
> Just curious, what was the CPU load at the time of that download? Was
the
> box being hit pretty hard, normal usage, or you had most of the CPU
> available to you?

Production machine, middle of the day.


> They can coexist, though like Craig states, the eventual goal should
> be to migrate completely to JSF.

The man jumped ship, left the old technology and a LOT of people holding
the bag.  You talk to anybody with a decent investment in Struts and see
how they feel about old Craig.  And when he jumps ship on JSF, let me
know how YOU feel...


> >...and RPG is the best.
> RPG is the best for the iSeries, yes I would agree with that if you
> already have RPG knowledge and you are writing green screen apps.

No, RPG is the best language for business development.  Period.

> Yes RPG is a pretty easy language to learn and has great DB access.

Which makes it... <drum roll please>... THE BEST BUSINESS APPLICATION
LANGUAGE.  Gz.


> I just don't think introducing two languages into the mix is the best
> solution. Debugging is overly complex and you need somebody to learn
> two languages that are quite different.

Cripes.  How old are you, Aaron?  You sound like... well, you sound like
an old curmudgeon.  I'll get you a cane to go along with the rocking
chair. <g>


> Last time you said Java was a bad business logic language and I dug
deeper
> into the reason and it turned out to be because Java's BigDecimal
> precision wasn't up to your standards. Is that still your biggest
hangup
> with Java as a business logic language?

Not precision, it's performance.  Still sucks.  But my biggest hangup is
that OO sucks for business programming, and if you don't use OO, Java
doesn't buy you much as a language.  The overhead of strict typing,
among other things, makes it a lot harder to do something in Java than
in RPG.

Joe