Re: the RPG problem - adrift in the PC-web wind

Hi,

A couple of thoughts.

> From: Steven Spencer
> why would you develop a new app in RPG instead of a 4GL?

Nathan

I've read some of Henrik's RPG (free form), which is elegantly expressed, and easy for me to understand. Notwithstanding the differences between versions, I think that you could pick up ILE RPG more easily than most other languages.

Steven Avery
I understand. However, there is a lot of handwork to externalize screens and other stuff, and this screen externalization is after the earlier transition from OCL to CL and to DB2. None of that really gives me any extra productivity, but a lot of money could be spent on the path, since to do it right, it is handwork throughout the system.

Nathan

For new apps, I almost always suggest ones that respond to requests from Web browsers. Browsers offer UI opportunities that would be impossible in a 5250 environment, and CAN BE more streamlined and productive for end users, if you know what you're doing. Browsers DO interface more easily with desktop applications. Browser user interfaces can be adapted to handheld devices, which is where most new development is headed, whether we're ready or not. Learning HTML, JavaScript, Style Sheets, and the browser DOM was more difficult for me than learning RPG, but was quite attainable. It opened a lot of doors.

Steven
I understand that professionally this is fine. Whether it is the best for the client, in a small shop with, say, a 1/2 programmer, is the question.

Nathan

It was worth the effort. I'm not great at it. I use Dreamweaver which is a powerful and productive IDE. I'd probably be lost without it. But I can develop user interfaces that are comparable to Google apps. Many reasons for using RPG. Web interfaces benefit from record-level access as much as 5250 interfaces. Performance is exceptional. RPG is able to respond to browser events so quickly that applications often feel like they're running on a local device rather than a network server. Consequently, you can create a more pleasing end-user experience. RPG Applications gain the advantage of IBM's exceptional workload management. It's normal to see 4,000+ active web related jobs running at one of our customer's sites, in harmony with an overall workload of 10,000+ active jobs. 4-core IBM i server, 32 meg RAM, 50% CPU utilization, 3,000+ users, sub-second response.

Steven
I'll accept all this (some RPG, some iSeries) as a good plus. This goes along with the rock-solid hardware and maintenance.

Nathan

I frequently toggle between a 5250 window and a browser window, each running different applications. Mixed workload environments are common. Your leanings toward a 4GL suggests that you value programmer productivity. It took us a while to build an RPG framework so that we are perhaps equally productive,

Steven
Undertsood.

Nathan

and I acknowledge that you may be more productive with a 4GL initially. On the other hand, I wouldn't trade my low-level understanding of browser interfaces, for a high-level tool because we occasionally run into requirements that don't fit into a box, and we need to be able to adapt.

Steven
Understood, again. However re really do not care much about browser inferfaces, at least not today. We will take whatever sensible interface is given by the 4GL or by the programming tool set, as long as it moves towards the little niceties of ease of drop-down boxes, buttons that send out email very simply, easy end-user queries using PC tab sorting, etc, Filemaker is the PC environment we want to replace, for a part of our system, and it is not particularly browser-centric.

Steven Spencer,
Queens, NY

Nathan

We often begin development by firing up Dreamweaver and designing a user interface with markers where IBM i data will be inserted during run-time. We often pull in HTML templates from existing applications. I'm now more comfortable with Dreamweaver than SDA.

I still prefer PDM for working with RPG code. We often pull in RPG templates from existing applications, so our methodologies are not that much different than traditional RPG development.