Re: RPG - I'm not dead yet!

Unless you use some form of externalizing the I/O (which no one would ever
use) in 3 words
"data base independence". The cost of hard wiring the database into an
application are tremendous. The whole point of SQL is to have a logical view
of the that is different than the physical view. We are writing new
applications using Java. The database is changing constantly. Could you
imagine how difficult that would be if you used RLA and had to recompile
every bloody program in the system every time we added a new field to the
database?

Every time we talk about using SQL, people are always worried that SQL is
slower. For a hundred millionth of second isn't it worth it to have far, far
simpler development? Our current system has kludge on kludge on kludge
trying to get around that the database is frozen. Making the smallest change
is prohibited because nobody want to recompile 10,000 programs.

We worry about a few hundred millionth of second (real or imagined) and
spend hundreds of thousands of dollars and maybe millions trying to get
around the database being hardwired into the program. I can give you example
after example in my current system or other systems I have worked on where
there are incredibly complex solutions to problems to huge amounts of time
and cost that could have simply been done adding a field to the data base or
resizing something.

We run a hundred trigger programs firing every time a change is made in 100
tables in our system and all 100% SQL and I have not seen one iota of
performance difference in our system because of SQL. The cost of not using
SQL are so high that any speed difference is completely unimportant.

I could go on and on about how much simpler it is to develop using SQL but I
really don't have the time. The bottom line is that other languages and
system using SQL and people on the AS/400 keep using RLA. Where do you
figure the jobs are going to be? They simply add a new field to a table and
they are done and we spend weeks writing some kludge to get around changing
the database. Where are companies going to spend their dollars? If we look
around at the job market I think we already have our answer.

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 1:29 PM, Michael Ryan <michaelrtr@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

And what's wrong with RLA? Too fast for you?

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 3:18 PM, Alan Campin <alan0307d@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

A 1000% better solution. Just use SQL. In this day and age using RLA

should

be a firing squad offense. Hell, it isn't like the entire rest of the

world

doesn't use it.

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 11:39 AM, Charles Wilt <charles.wilt@xxxxxxxxx
wrote:

I'm a fan of CMS systems...and I will admit that this used to be one
reason...

However, I've since changed my mind. :)

The problem with recompiling the world, even in an automated fashion
is that now you should regression test the world too....and I think
even fewer RPG shops have automated testing than those that have CMS
systems!

A better solution IMHO, is to make sure your RPG native RLA programs
only access data through a logical file that has fields explicitly
listed.

Now, you add a field to the physical, create one or more new logicals
that include the field and modify any programs that need the field.

The additional logicals take up little space and add no overhead as
they presumably are keyed like existing ones and thus will share the
access path.

In practice, the next few times I need to add a field, I'll go head
and add it to some or all of the most recently created logicals...as I
don't mind recompiling and retesting a few programs. At some point,
depending on project priority, what I feel like dealing with, I'll add
the next field to v3 of the format.

Lastly, it's not hard to retrofit this method into an existing
application that has programs that access the physical or existing
logicals that implicitly share the physical's layout.

Charles

On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 12:37 PM, David Gibbs <david@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

wrote:

*** NOT REALLY TOPICAL TO THE DISCUSSION, BUT ... ***

On 7/8/2011 10:51 AM, john e wrote:

In MY experience, with RPG...In almost all situations i was in,
adding a simple field to a table required compilation of all 1000+
RPG programs.

This is where a good change control system helps.

Add a field to a file, promote the change from development to QA, all

the

programs that use that file are automatically recompiled.

david
(who works for MKS, a change control solution provider, in addition to

running midrange.com)

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