Ok, so Scott you got me incredibly curious with all that x desktop stuff and
here is what I found:
http://www.lartob.de/x-desktop.org/releases/r1/index.html (funny enough
that it some features only work in FF - others were bombing out on IE for
me).
All I can say is that is CRAZY COOL! From everything I could tell they
didn't load ANY plugins, but it feels a lot like a desktop!
Go here for the base technology page:
http://x-desktop.org/
I couldn't resist seeing this run on a System i5 so I loaded it on mine
here:
http://bartell.stproc.com:9000/. Not that it is that special to be
running on an iSeries because really all the base install includes is HTML
and Javascript.
The big bummer: Looks like it hasn't been touched since 2004 so I would
consider it dead :-(
Java programs running natively on i5/OS have the same capability... they
can run on the '400 and write to the display on my PC.
Anybody have an example of this? I have heard of NAWT but haven't ever
tried it.
then communicate with it via sockets (or similar) to tell it which APIs to
call from my RPG program. Not easy by any stretch.
Sounds like Joe Pluta's Java JSP thin layer to RPG for web apps concept
could be used here. Instead of having Java you could have a C program
communicating with a data queue, sending requests back and forth. Do they
have a GUI designer for these X terminal type apps or do you have to build
them from scratch with x and y coordinates?
Of course, I could call the Java routines directly from RPG using RPG's
support for calling Java methods -- I've been thinking about doing that, but
haven't tried it yet. The overhead of Java always frustrates me.
Have you tried putting a data queue layer in between your RPG and Java. It
can get fairly performant with that approach as the Java classes are only
loaded once. That is what I did in my RPG Chart Engine open source project:
http://mowyourlawn.com/RPGChartEngine.html
P.s. rockin' out to
http://www.purevolume.com/thefold this mornin.
Interesting thoughts,
Aaron Bartell
http://mowyourlawn.com
-----Original Message-----
From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [
mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Scott Klement
Sent: Thursday, May 17, 2007 5:31 PM
To: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
Subject: Re: i5 GUI
Hi Alan,
And they now run AIX native binary OS on the same metal guts as they
do the the i5/OS, right? (As a non-AIX or Linux guy, me) And AIX and
Linux already have source and binaries that can render graphics on an
ASCII "dumb terminal", right?
Err.. Yes, basically. Personally, I don't think of an X terminal as a
"dumb terminal", rather I think of a dumb terminal as being a pure ASCII
terminal (i.e. no graphics)
But, yes, you're right... an X terminal just displays what another system
sends to it to be displayed. The actual code that runs the software is on a
server.
Would they have "C-type libraries" on the AIX that support such
rendering of graphics output to those terminals?
Yes, they do. In fact, those same "C-type libraries" can be run on i5/OS
under PASE. Java uses them to render it's GUI screens. IBM always tells
you to use VNC to view the output -- but technically in that case, they're
using the X11 protocol (the one that X Terminals use) to send the graphics
to a VNC Server running on the same system, and
then running VNC's protocol to send it over the network. A bit
convoluted if you ask me -- but that's just the way IBM tells you to use it.
It's perfectly possible (easy, in fact) to set up an X desktop on your PC
and have Java (or PASE programs) write their output directly via the X
protocol.
In fact, I have Cygwin X (a free, open source, X server for Windows) running
on my PC. I'm able to run graphical programs on my iSeries 270 in PASE, and
they output their displays to my PC. You can't tell the difference between
the Windows programs and the ones running on i5/OS, they all interact
together on the same display. To someone who doesn't
know better, they all look like "Windows programs". In my mind, it
works 1000 times better than VNC.
Java programs running natively on i5/OS have the same capability... they can
run on the '400 and write to the display on my PC.
RPG, C, COBOL, CL... none of these have that capability. Since the actual
X11 rendering libraries run in PASE, it's not easy to make them work,
either. I'd have to write a C program, compile it to an AIX binary, then
communicate with it via sockets (or similar) to tell it which APIs to call
from my RPG program. Not easy by any stretch.
Of course, I could call the Java routines directly from RPG using RPG's
support for calling Java methods -- I've been thinking about doing that, but
haven't tried it yet. The overhead of Java always frustrates me.
Could someone build one to throughput to some graphics output or
output/input device, like Export Ventures?
Export Ventures has already done so... they've ported the X11 stuff to pure
native i5/OS (no need for PASE), but last I heard, there weren't too many
people using it.
To me, one of the strengths of our platform is integration. The tools need
to be deeply integrated. A complex set of APIs that's not integrated into a
language is okay, but it's throwing away some of the advatnages of the
system. I'd like them to be deeply integrated.. RPG needs to know that it's
working with X11, and needs to make it as easy as possible to do so. WDSC
needs the facility to design GUI screens displayed via X11. The technology
is certainly there, it's just not all integrated together and easy for us to
use.
Same thing with HTML interfaces. IBM could make a screen designer in WDSC
that makes it easy to lay out a screen, and knows about input and output
fields that will come from a program. They could give RPG the ability to
easily display those screens. Right now the closest thing we have is
CGIDEV2 -- which is very good, but not as integrated. You still have to
design the HTML separately, then go back and modify it to have the sections
and variables, then call extra APIs to get the input, etc.
Plus the extra work of creating your own session keys, storing session
variables, etc. Tell IBM you want this stuff, they tell you to use WebSphere
or PHP or something like that. "Use the right tool for the job."
--
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