RE: Assembly programmers do it a byte at a time

Greg, would give right leg to have you working with me. Like the man said, you 
want to learn. 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christen, Duane J. [mailto:dchristen@xxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 6:23 AM
To: 'RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries'
Subject: RE: Assembly programmers do it a byte at a time


Greg;

IMHO you have 90% of the transition complete. 

YOU WANT TO LEARN!!! 

Most programmers, no matter the what language they use, have no desire to
learn something new. They get a paycheck every week and thats as far as they
want to go. I would take one person, off the street, who wants to learn
something new over 10 "programmers" who want a paycheck. 

Duane Christen


-----Original Message-----
From: Fleming, Greg (ED) [mailto:GFLEMING@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 8:09 AM
To: rpg400-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Assembly programmers do it a byte at a time


Alan,

Thanks.

Sounds like this is closer to what I am looking for.  

It just seems to me like this and some other recent threads here are
beginning to get at the real reason why so many of us are finding it
difficult to move to ILE programming.  It's that some of us don't know
how to program.  I'm not sure that what I've been doing with RPG for
eight years is really programming.  I guess it's analagous to what a
handyman does vs. a builder.  

And that begs the question whether small shops using third party
software really need ILE programming to do our workarounds and vendor
interfaces.  Sure, it's ideal to have a semi-retired builder do your
handyman work. He'll probably do a better job than someone else.  But
both will probably get the job done.  

Having said that, it seems like even in small shops, certainly in ours,
information sharing with vendors and large customers, as well as between
internal systems, is becoming more and more complicated, and probably
does demand "real programming" as opposed to "make it work and do it
quickly" patchwork.  

I'd like to find out if I'm capable of making that transition, but I
don't think just learning how to use the tools will get me there.  I
have to learn what to do with them. 

Greg
  

------------------------------

message: 2
date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 18:29:30 -0700
from: Alan Campin <Alan.Campin@xxxxxxx>
subject: RE: Assembly programmers do it a byte at a time

>>  Can you recommend some good reading for moving from structured 
>> programming to "real ILE"?

So you looking for a book on ILE RPG or a book that talks about
programming?

One of the best on programming is Code Complete, Second Edition from
Microsoft Press. This really goes through the basics and anything in
Code Complete is just as applicable for ILE RPG. 

As far as books, I haven't really seen anything that focuses on ILE RPG.
Most of what I have seen are syntax books for RPG IV and don't go into
using ILE in depth. I will look around. 

If you understand structured design concepts, then ILE just flows
naturally, at least that was true for me. I had to learn the syntax but
the concepts made all the sense in the world to me. 

Others have suggested before that one of the best ways to understand the
ILE world is to look at object oriented languages. 

For anyone wanting to understand object concepts, a very unique concept
is the Bluej environment available at www.bluej.com. BlueJ is a free
graphical teaching environment that focuses on teaching about objects
first with a minimum of Java. You create classes and then graphically
create objects. Being used all over the world for teaching objects. You
can get the book that goes with on Amazon.  

Objects First with Java
A Practical Introduction using BlueJ, 2nd ed 
Prentice Hall / Pearson Education, 2004
ISBN 0-13-124933-9

The other thing to look at learning some "C". Since RPG IV is just a
nice clean version of "C"(My opinion only), learning "C" made things a
lot clear for me or least the basics. 

Here is an electronic book on "C" 

http://www.freshsources.com/thinkc.html

Don't know if I am answering your question or not. Maybe you can amplify
what the issues are that you struggling with.