Re: RPGIV: RPGIII to get a facelift?

I know I'm gonna sound like an old fart saying this, but I
have yet to move to /free.  I see no need since I feel I am
quite productive with fixed format.  I like free format,
don't get me wrong.  I've used it in a hundred other
langauges.  But, I stick with fixed for RPG for a while at
least.

Some reasons off the top of my head are:

1.  Backwards compatibility  (the need to compile to V4 or
even V3 in some cases for my software, articles, books,
etc)
2.  Other programming staff I work with may not be
comfortable with it
3.  It doesn't gain me any performance at run-time
4.  I can read fixed code just fine (well, MY fixed code...
I've seen ugly fixed code, but it's not as ugly as some of
the bad free format I've seen)

WDSC, well, I still haven't moved to that.  But got some
good info from George Farr's presentation a couple weeks
ago online (that it is a HIGH priority that IBM will
release an RPG only version of WDSC, without all of the
other clutter that isn't needed).

My thoughts on WDSC, for what little I know of it, is that
IBM should have simply written plugins for Eclipse instead
of "bastardizing" it with their own version.  Then I could
simply download a plugin for RPG and be done with it.  :)

But that's getting off topic.




On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 09:59:07 -0600
 "Bartell, Aaron L." <ALBartell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Note: upgrade to the latest WDSc and you won't have to
> hop over to CODE
> to convert to /free.
> 
> I agree that /free and /end-free are a pain to write :-(
> But if you
> can't justify the move to it with having to write /free
> and /end-free I
> am guessing if they ever took those away you still
> wouldn't move to the
> new format.  Sure /free and /end-free are a pain, but the
> code
> indentation you get far out weighs that minor
> distraction!
> 
> On your note for getting H,F,D.. Specs "free", I used to
> complain about
> the same thing.  But when I took a unbiased look at it
> (meaning not
> trying to make it java :-) I realized that those specs
> keep my program
> declarations looking pretty clean. We have the ability to
> accomplish a
> lot of declaration in one line of code with RPG when
> using a D spec, and
> keep it clean and informative. Thanks to Jon Paris for
> making me see the
> light on that one :-)
> 
> Aaron Bartell
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:rpg400-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] 
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2004 2:15 AM
> To: rpgiv@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Cc: RPG programming on the AS400 / iSeries
> Subject: Re: RPGIV: RPGIII to get a facelift?
> 
> 
> I think IBM should focus 100% of their efforts on
> completing /FREE. 
> Until RPG is a completely free-form language, it's
> incomplete and it
> does nothing to bring new recruits into the fold.  I've
> talked with
> several "older" programmers who feel no need to move to
> /FREE because H,
> F, D, and O specs are still fixed-format.  Younger
> programmers just turn
> their nose up at the current neither-fish-nor-fowl /FREE
> implementation.
> 
> Seeing a moderately contemporary progam littered with
> /END-FREE and
> /FREE is more than moderately annoying.  I can use my
> service program
> library to handle MOVE issues (and others) but the lack
> of a free-form
> GOTO/TAG is a burr under my coding saddle.  My standard
> structure for
> handling a rich mixture of command keys, help panels, and
> lookups is not
> well-suited for the glib suggestion in the Reference
> manual to "use
> other operation codes, such as LEAVE, LEAVESR, ITER, and
> RETURN"
> instead of GOTO.  Is there a technical reason GOTO and
> TAG can't be
> free-formed?  Or is this the Programming Police in
> action, telling us a
> complex set of nested loops for flow control promotes
> program
> readability?  I'm thinking about my customers' junior
> programmers trying
> to make sense out of Nested Loop Soup.
> 
> Like most of us, I spent a lot of time in non-/FREE code,
> and I'd like
> to convert it to /FREE without rewriting it.  It's
> well-structured code
> (not spaghetti); then I use CODE (i.e. leave WDSC, hop
> into CODE) to
> convert it, and it gets ugly with /END-FREE and /FREE
> from dealing with
> the unsupported op codes.
> 
> We have a tool, /FREE, to cut through layers of to-do
> lists.  It would
> be a better tool if it were sharper, and charging for the
> rusty blades
> of old, less efficient tools doesn't serve any purpose
> other than to
> annoy the small number of customers requiring the
> facility for program
> maintenance.
> 
> -reeve
> 
> 
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 15:22:28 -0500, Bob Cozzi
> <cozzi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > 
> > I spent one day at COMMON last week and talked with
> several of the IBM
> 
> > Canada RPG IV developers.  One of the questions that
> was asked was if 
> > IBM could/should start charging for the RPGII and
> RPGIII compilers 
> > (some people call RPGIII, "RPG400").
> > 
> > Anyway, I suggested that IBM should enhance RPG IV with
> two new
> features:
> > 
> > 1) Allow blank lines in the source code
> > 2) Support the compiler parameters in the H spec, and
> translate those 
> > parms when the CVTRPGSRC command is used.
> > 
> > Without leading your responses: I'm wondering if you
> feel charging for
> 
> > RPGIII would help/encourage you to move to RPGIV more
> aggressively?
> > 
> > -Bob
> > 
> > 
> > www.RPGxTools.com
> > "Free your Limitations"
> > Now with CGILIB - The best CGI RPG library available.
> > 
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> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> 
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Bradley V. Stone
BVS.Tools
www.bvstools.com