Re: RPG and Web.. (was Using OO concepts in RPG)

On Mon, 12 May 2003 08:46:57 -0400
 Hans Boldt <boldt@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Now Brad, you know better than to invite people to
> provide examples of better tools for web page generation!
> ;-)

No I don't.  :)  I haven't heard a convicing argument yet
from someone that actually does it for a living on the
iSeries.  Whether it's a contractor who's put together a
large OE system or a full time programmer in a shop.

> In the past, I've offered examples of how Python (as
> another alternative) can be better for web page
> generation. For example, I discussed translating a
> published ~200 line RPG program into an equivalent ~100
> line Python program. (I could have reduced the size
> further, but to keep the comparison fair, I kept the
> overall structure and comments of the RPG program.) Well,
> actually, it wasn't exactly eqivalent, since the Python
> program did not include the three obvious bugs present in
> the RPG program.

So less lines of code = better.  I would guess there was no
DB access in your example.  If so, you would have to
include any code from classes that allow it, right? 

Even if less lines of code = better, then we get into do
you start including any class code used, or subprocedure
code, etc.. etc..  And also, we would need to compare real
world examples, not simple examples.  That's the problem
with Hello World... it gives a false feeling of completion.


> 
> I also described how I implemented a web server in 7
> lines of Python code. 

Irrelivent, but cool.  Then again lines of code.. where to
we start and stop counting?  And does it really matter?

> And more recently, I offered a short sample program
> showing how one might implement the "template" technique
> in Python. Again, much much simpler and easier to
> understand than the equivalent in RPG. Believe it or not,
> but templating in Python doesn't even require importing
> any of the functionality of the Python class library!

Simpler and easier to a Python programmer?  Or an RPG
programmer?  I understand Python might have better string
replacement functionality, but, that's a very small part of
the CGIDEV2 functionality, although easily one of the most
important.

> Anyways, it's not really my goal here to push Python. I
> only offer these as examples of just one particular tool
> that's more appropriate to the task. Python is simply my
> language of choice for my hobby programming. 

We all have our favorites.  But the key here is "hobby"
programming.  

> 
> Now as far as I can tell, the only advantage offered by
> RPG in web programming is that RPG programmers don't have
> to learn another language, only how to use available
> procedure libraries. But if you do a lot of web
> programming, surely there's a point where the
> productivity gained by learning a more appropriate tool
> overcomes any initial advantage in starting with the
> language you already know.

I have yet to reach that point.  And I've done a LOT of web
programming both directly and inderectly, probably more
than most, and most of it with RPG.  I just wish I would
have started to use CGIDEV2 earlier.  :)  

I have yet to have a customer, or someone I've helped say
"man, why did you talk me into using RPG for the web..."
 In fact, it's the opposite.  They're all so happy.

Most of my customers come to me after fighting with
Java/Websphere for a year or so, just asking "ok, what can
RPG really do?".  In a week I have them writing huge apps
and on their own (yep, I'm probably the only consultant
that works himself out of a job, but in a good way).

Get outside the RPG world and it is a big contest to learn
new languages, one up your buddy in the comp sci lab, etc..
etc..  But in the business world it's not that way.  It's
about getting the job done.  I know that's where most of
our ideas have differed in the past.  And will continue
too... we're living and working in different worlds.

Brad