RE: DIM question (Was MOVE/MOVEL and %Scan)

Hans,

>> Furthermore, these db modules have a standard
>> interface, and so you can easily switch database products
>> without the need to substantially rewrite code.  I don't
>> nean to bad-mouth RPG, but this degree of flexibility just
>> doesn't exist with RPG.


And it hasn't needed to. There is only one database, "the database".
Ya got a problem with that? <vbg>


Bob Cozzi
cozzi@rpgiv.com
Visit the on-line  Midrange  Developer  forum at: http://www.rpgiv.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: rpg400-l-admin@midrange.com [mailto:rpg400-l-admin@midrange.com]
On
> Behalf Of boldt@ca.ibm.com
> Sent: Friday, March 08, 2002 1:15 PM
> To: rpg400-l@midrange.com
> Subject: RE: DIM question (Was MOVE/MOVEL and %Scan)
>
> Joe wrote:
> >Politely as possible, Hans, you're dead wrong.  If you don't
understand
> the
> >elegance and power of RPG, I'm concerned that you're intimately
involved
> >with its future.  No other language provides the integrated database
> access
> >required to succinctly encapsulate the complicated database
maneuvering
> >required for advanced business applications.  I've written operating
> systems
> >and applications, so I know the difference between the two.  Writing
a
> bill
> >of materials explosion or an MRP generation is completely different
from
> >writing an optimizing compiler or an event-driven kernel.  While you
CAN
> do
> >business applications in other languages, the integrated database
> >instructions of RPG make it by far the best language for the task.
>
> RPG elegant?  I've been working with RPG for the past 20 years,
> and "elegant" would not be an adjective I'd use to describe it.
>
> Does a language need to be "integrated" with a database for it
> to be a good language for business apps?  One problem with RPG
> is that it is "too" integrated with OS/400's database.  Many
> RPG programmers would like to be able to port their apps to
> other operating systems.  But matching the semantics of RPG's
> database operations to databases on other systems is not easy.
> The inability to easily port business applications written in
> RPG is a major impediment to more widespread adoption of the
> language.
>
> For fun, a couple of weeks ago I found an example of an RPG
> program published in some magazine and rewrote it in Python and
> SQL.  The Python program ended up half the size, with bugs
> removed, and it was more robust and flexible.  For example,
> with my program, if you wanted to display a different number of
> columns in the report, you only have to change one line of
> code - the SQL query.
>
> OK, database access is not an "integrated" part of the Python
> language.  So what?  Database programming in Python is done by
> using modules written to support specific databases or database
> access methods.  Furthermore, these db modules have a standard
> interface, and so you can easily switch database products
> without the need to substantially rewrite code.  I don't nean to
> bad-mouth RPG, but this degree of flexibility just doesn't exist
> with RPG.  (Unless you're using the SQL CLI, perhaps, but that's
> still not as easy as the DB-API in Python.)
>
> >Your statement that any language can do anything is one that has been
> hashed
> >out in these forums before, and I stand by my opinion that some tools
are
> >better than others.  If you don't believe that, then I suggest you
try
> >writing an MRP generation using SQL and Python.  Get back to me in a
few
> >months when you have it working.
>
> I don't have to.  Another group is already doing just that.
> Check out the GNUe project.  Granted, it's still in the
> development stage, but it does show promise.  They
> specifically chose Python for it's ease of programming.
>
> I agree fully that some tools are better than others.  But
> there are a lot of factors involved in choosing a set of
> tools for a paricular purpose.  In the iSeries world, two of
> the most important factors happen to be 1) that most iSeries
> programmers know RPG better than any other language; and 2)
> that most iSeries software is already written in RPG.  To be
> fair, these are important factors, and IBM will continue to
> recognize the importance of these factors.  But you can't
> ignore the legions of other programmers who do churn out
> business apps in other languages, and do so happily.
>
> Perhaps we'll just have to agree to disagree.
>
> Cheers!  Hans
>
> Hans Boldt, ILE RPG Development, IBM Toronto Lab, boldt@ca.ibm.com
>
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