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RE: PTF apply philosophies



fixed

Fiber attached, 3573 LTO 5 half height drives.
All 4 drives were used for dedicated system save.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Tsvetan Marinov
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2014 6:17 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies

Wow, this is really fast!

The tape library is FC attached ?

Regards
Tsetso
On 9 Jul 2014 14:48, "Steinmetz, Paul" <PSteinmetz@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Last night, production LPAR, P7 8205 with all SSD (5913), installed
latest
V7R1 CUM , TL14143, TR8, all latest groups, and several other misc
PTF, followed by dedicated system save, using 4 LTO 5 FC HH.

Took 2 IPLs, total time 20 minutes.
Fastest system save ever, 1 hour 20 minutes, (2.1 TB)

Total down window, under 2 hours.

So far, all is well.

If anyone needs performance, (including backup performance), I
strongly recommend the above combination.
I would love to see the same numbers with P8, SSD, V7R2, LTO6,
wondering how much faster.

Paul


-----Original Message-----
From: Steinmetz, Paul
Sent: Tuesday, June 17, 2014 11:11 AM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies

IPL'd production LPAR last night, applying MF58058, which was SS with
MF99008, along with a few other PTFs.
MF58085 definitely resolved an issue where the 577D was not reporting
in all 4 LTO5 HH FC drives following the replacement of one of the drives.
Temporarily, I DLPAR and swapped the two 577D, all was fine.
Very strange behavior, but now all fixed.

Paul


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steinmetz, Paul
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 11:09 AM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies

Since I originally started this thread, I now have a tape FC issue
which needs an IPL for MF58085, SS by MF99008.
Yes, our wonderful MF99008 keeps popping up.
So now the 6/16 IPL for PTF apply, which was to be postponed, now is
critical.
Do I try and include TR8 with this?
I probably can get TR8 applied today on R&D, run for 2 weeks.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 10:57 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies

Well, you have to understand, MF99008 was the real 'peach'. That
already caused us some issues. Those have been resolved. So, that's
already been out for quite some time.
In all seriousness, I am downloading the cume and all latest groups,
including TR8, to apply to all remaining 7.1 lpars. Production and
all. I was going to apply them all the weekend of June 13. Boss wants
a slight delay. Only until the P8's get here and do it all at once.
Yee Haw!


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600
Mail
to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: "Steinmetz, Paul" <PSteinmetz@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'"
<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/06/2014 10:43 AM
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>



Rob,

So you wouldn't run TR8 on R&D for 2 or 3 months, then apply to production?

Paul.

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 10:40 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies

How long would I wait? Until I can get everyone kicked off.


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600
Mail
to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: "Steinmetz, Paul" <PSteinmetz@xxxxxxxxxx>
To: "'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'"
<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/06/2014 10:38 AM
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>



V7R1 TR8 released today.
How long would you wait till applying to a production LPAR.
Will take an IPL, I'm sure.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 9:00 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies

They stay there. Hence the recommendation to apply permanently.
You've never taken over maintenance on a machine that's been under
someone

else's care only to find PTF save files from 2.1 and more? I'm surprised.


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600
Mail
to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: Pete Massiello - ML <pmassiello-ml@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/06/2014 07:54 AM
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophies
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>



Rob,

I always apply PTFs permanently before an OS Upgrade
as well, but I always apply PTFs perm after they have been on the
system for a while. Basically before I put the next cumulative on, I
apply everything permanently. This is especially important for the MF
PTFs on 57xx-999, as it means that what is currently on the B side (of
LIC), now is on the A side. So, if applying new 57xx-999 PTFs from
the cume (which will always have new MF PTFs) and you put on a bad MF
PTF which prevents you from IPLing, you could just IPL from the A side
which would be the LIC


(License Internal Code) that you were running right before the update.

I have never seen PTFs *SAVF remain after an upgrade,
but


then again I always apply my PTFs perm as that is the right way to do it.
So, I can't say that those objects would remain.

Pete



--
Pete Massiello
iTech Solutions
http://www.itechsol.com
http://www.iInTheCloud.com




-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2014 7:37 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophyies

There are pros, and cons, to permanently applying PTFs. General rule
of thumb is to permanently apply all PTF's before an OS upgrade.
Failure to do so will leave many orphan objects on your system for all
eternity. For


example, let's say ptf SI12345 fixes program QSOMETHING. When you put
on ptf SI12345 IBM backs up the original program QSOMETHING into a
save file and leaves it on your system. This way, if you remove that
ptf, it can restore it from that save file. When you permanently
apply SI12345 it deletes the save file containing the original
QSOMETHING. If you've ever watched your IPL during a PTF apply and saw "5000 objects processed"
during the apply of one ptf, you start to realize how significant
these ptf save files can be.

The main con is, if you want to back one PTF off. It gets to be
rather tough, if it's permanently applied. Normally not something you
do if you've been running that PTF for a few months.

The exception that proves the rule is Domino. I never permanently
apply PTF's to Domino unless I am getting ready to remove that version
of Domino. It is quite often that I have to remove one fix to apply another.



Therefore a Domino shop should probably avoid the APYPTF LICPGM(*ALL)
approach. Do them one by one.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600
Mail
to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: "Bakutis, Becky" <BBakutis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 06/05/2014 06:42 PM
Subject: RE: PTF apply philosophyies
Sent by: "MIDRANGE-L" <midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx>



"Generally I do like load and run Temp and SAVE 22. Run for perhaps 2
or
3 months. Then perm apply all and SAVE 22. Then repeat as necessary."

This brings up a question I have and am interested in what others do.
Currently immediately before applying a new CUME I apply the 5770999
PTFs permanently. Someone asked if maybe we should apply all PTFs
permanently prior to applying a CUME. Is there a reason to apply all
other than having a base level of PTFs?


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
DrFranken
Sent: Thursday, June 05, 2014 5:05 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: PTF apply philosophyies

I do a LOT of PTFs and spoken to many of the fine folks at IBM re PTFs
and



the process.

First off it has been stated that MANY PTFs simply require an IPL. The
objects being replaced simply cannot be updated at any other time as
they are always in use or otherwise locked. A claim of 90% of PTFs
can be applied immediately doesn't align with what I see. I suppose
it's possible



in fact but with all the pre and co requisite PTFs all it takes is one
PTF



in the 'set' to require an IPL and the other PTFs are stuck so
effectively



all the PTFs require an IPL.

I have heard several times that using *IMMDLY (Immediate if possible,
Delayed to IPL when mandatory) Is NOT recommended for any PTF Groups
including CUMEs. It's essentially impossible to read every cover
letter and deal with all the special instructions. Failure to follow
the special instructions can mean many things, not the least of which
is that many of the PTFs that APPEAR to be applied are not active
until an action is taken, frequently the action is to IPL (which I
find annoying!)

I do concur with other comments that if you are not provided
sufficient time for backups, PTFs, and other maintenance then having
an HA system is near mandatory. Clearly NOT doing PTFs and proper
saves is just a system crash looking for a bad time to occur. If time
is so short when you DO get



a window that any problems push you into being considered an outage
that also is 'living on the edge'. Also consider making your load
source disk an SSD, this will 'enhance PTF apply performance.'

Generally I do like load and run Temp and SAVE 22. Run for perhaps 2
or
3 months. Then perm apply all and SAVE 22. Then repeat as necessary.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com
www.iInTheCloud.com

On 6/4/2014 11:56 AM, Steinmetz, Paul wrote:

Management would like to minimize the IPL, PTF, and system save
downtimes.
HA/DR Is out of the question.
Currently, I try to IPL Production every 2 months for PTF apply
along
with a system save.
The IPL and system save will probably go to 6 months or as needed.
90% of PTFs can be applied immediately without an IPL, however IBM
does
not recommend immediate apply for more than a single PTF.
Applying a large amount of PTFs immediately has caused issues in
the
past.
Permission has been granted for the PTF immediate apply, but I'm
weary
from previous issues.

Any thoughts from the group.

Thank You
_____
Paul Steinmetz
IBM i Systems Administrator

Pencor Services, Inc.
462 Delaware Ave
Palmerton Pa 18071

610-826-9117 work
610-826-9188 fax
610-349-0913 cell
610-377-6012 home

psteinmetz@xxxxxxxxxx
http://www.pencor.com/

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