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RE: No Power7 to Power8 MES upgrade option, entitlements, cores, etc.



fixed

Paul,

Sorry I did not qualify my license transfer statement to exclude some of the
P5 boxes where the OS was part of the serial number. That's been quite some
time and I literally forgot about it.

As to the IRS rules you only need to look at the massive CPW number that are
coming out now vs, the CPW on the older machine. More than the IRS limit,
and it cannot be upgraded, it has to be a net new asset by serial number.
The other features attached to your P7 may not fall into the category but
the processor does, and that's where the serial number is grounded. IBM
can and sometimes does give specific discounts to get you to move even when
the serial number changes but that's not what we are discussing here.
Upgrade rules with respect to IRS have been constant and steady for many
years, but the horsepower certainly has not stayed on a straight line.

As to using the 2nd CPU I don't doubt that it happened, but like Larry every
time I've seen an application like that the OS, LPPs, and other functions
will grab that other CPU and peg it out as best they can.

Your question on the available cores depends on how the box was ordered. If
they were physically turned on and paid for you can use them for AIX or
Linux workload, or of course buy another IBM i license.

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Chief Technical Architect
Agile Technology Architects


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steinmetz, Paul
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 3:19 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: No Power7 to Power8 MES upgrade option, entitlements, cores,
etc.

Larry,

I'm confused on the P7 to P8 that P7 would not qualify from IRS standpoint.
I would like to see those IRS numbers.
Almost all my current P7 features will migrate to a P8, so that statement
doesn't make sense.
So there stating that my current P7 value is less than 20% of 300,000
(60,000) Back when I went from P5 to P7, yes it did, nothing migrated.

So maybe we got snowed, or someone got a piece of one of our P5 to P7
transfers.
Maybe P5 rules were different.

As far as a 2nd processor being used, it amazes me too. I'm sure with a
different mix, more Java and more SQL, then yes.
I wish I could show you a MPG graph, cores used.
I questioned this with IBM and several others years back.
They said purchased processors that you really don't need.
There is no setting to force the usage of additional processors.
Does anyone have Power gear with active processors with no licenses. We have
5 active cores out of 8 sitting idle.
Can't really use those cores for anything?

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
DrFranken
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 3:55 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: No Power7 to Power8 MES upgrade option, entitlements, cores,
etc.

They are always working within the rules.

Jim is right on the IRS part. I believe the stated rule is that when you
return your old system it must retain 20% of it's initial value in order to
qualify as an upgrade. They could not meet that standard with POWER7 to
POWER8 on the low end. Potentially on larger servers later as was also
mentioned.

This is really a statement of how fast the industry as a whole is moving
forward. WHat was 'state of the art' just a few years ago is now below
'ho-hum' in many cases.

As to IBM i licenses that rule hasn't really changed. Yes there used to be
certain licenses that were part of the base box and as such were 'welded' to
that server. When you upgraded you could not transfer those base licenses.
Often this didn't really hurt much as the increase in CPW per core has
frequently meant that fewer cores were needed and in other cases the drop in
P-group more than made up for it.

With POWER7 and I believe PWOER6 as well there are no cores that are 'base'
and so what you have should transfer to a new server.

Your expectation that no more than one core is used is out of the ordinary
for sure. Back when we installed the very first 2-core machine in my
customer base (a model 310) their constraint was single thread RPG batch so
we wondered if the second core would do anything. Turned out both cores
maxed right out, likely one running the RPG and the other doing I/O and DB
work plus the O/S code.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com
www.iInTheCloud.com

On 4/30/2014 3:46 PM, Steinmetz, Paul wrote:

Jim,

That's not totally true on transfers. When we went from P5 to P7, new
purchase, only 2 of our 3 i5/OS licenses would transfer. One had to stay
with the old box.
So we had to anity up (44,000) and purchase anther i5/OS license to keep
us at 3.

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Jim Oberholtzer
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 3:44 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: RE: No Power7 to Power8 MES upgrade option, entitlements, cores,
etc.

Keep in mind that IBM does not always have the ability to offer an upgrade
with a same serial number option. Reason: Internal Revenue Service rules.
If the new asset is sufficiently more powerful than the old asset, IRS
requires a new serial number so they can get their skin out of it in the new
depreciation schedule. I think that is the situation with the current batch
of P8 boxes.

Even when the serial number changes, IBM will transfer your software to
the new box and since that's the biggest dollar value of the deal (usually)
it's not nearly as bad as it used to be.

--
Jim Oberholtzer
Chief Technical Architect
Agile Technology Architects


-----Original Message-----
From: MIDRANGE-L [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Steinmetz, Paul
Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 2:19 PM
To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
Subject: No Power7 to Power8 MES upgrade option, entitlements, cores, etc.

1) Is IBM doing away with MES upgrades?
No MES upgrade path from Power7 to Power8 Over the years, IBM always gave
you an upgrade option, up to a point.
If you upgraded within that timeframe, you saved $$$$, if not, the new
machine would be quite a bit more, you lost all value from old machine.
This is what kept you current.
We had our same serial# for over 10 years from our original 510 (mid 90's)
Also, on MES, all entitlements would transfer.
On a new machine, the base entitlement had to stay with the old machine,
so you had to repurchase an additional entitlement to remain at the same
level.

9406 AS/400 RISC Series Processor was our original 510. (mid 90's)
9406 System Unit MES # 19262 from 510 to 640 upgrade. (2nd quarter 98)
9406 System Unit MES # N26616 from 640 to 830 upgrade. (2nd quarter
2001)
9606 System Unit MES # 129707-6 from 830 to 550 upgrade (3rd quarter
2005)
8205 new purchase - (1st quarter 2012)
S814 new purchase - TBD

2) Also related to number of cores.
We currently have an 8-core 8205, but only 3 cores licensed for i5/os.
The remaining 5 active cores are useless.
We needed to purchase them to get the 8205 features we needed.

I see the same issue, but only worse with Power8, number of cores has
increased.
Also, not sure if many know this, but if you have more than 1 full
processor allocated to an LPAR, and your running RPG or RPGIV, that 2nd
processor will probably never be used.
RPG and RPGIV is all single threaded, most work will always only use the
1st processor.
Way back on Power5, our BP sold us additional processors with the
perception that more work will get done quicker, not the case.

Thank You
_____
Paul Steinmetz
IBM i Systems Administrator

Pencor Services, Inc.
462 Delaware Ave
Palmerton Pa 18071

610-826-9117 work
610-826-9188 fax
610-349-0913 cell
610-377-6012 home

psteinmetz@xxxxxxxxxx<mailto:psteinmetz@xxxxxxxxxx>
http://www.pencor.com/

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