Re: 7.2 Was: IBM i 7.1 Technology Refresh 7 available Nov. 15-CLARIFICATION on POWER5

Yeah, I understand the Load Source is different and has different rules and
requirements.

It was virtual partitions that I was discussion so it was a question of how
to carve out the smallest practical partition.

I like your suggestion of a larger load source marked *ENDALC. Do you have
any guests running with a configuration like this ?


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 8:51 AM, DrFranken <midrange@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Remember that the rules for Load Source are different than for other
drives. This is due to to the two copies of the LIC on there, the base
O/S stuff on it and working space for dumps etc. IBM takes this number
and 'rounds up' to the next physical drive size. This is why it's
numbers like 8G, 17G and now 70GB.

The actual requirement may be FAR less but if you think about it a
POWER6 is the oldest server that can run 7.2. The SMALLEST disk units
sold for a POWER6 were 70GB. You can't buy them new any longer but they
are out there used. Yes you COULD put an 0595 on there and fill it with
8G units (WHY is a question) but those weren't SOLD for POWER6 so not
considered.

Undoubtedly several of us will try smaller sizes for virtual partitions.
:-)

Next consider that just because the Load Source needs to be 70 (if that
turns out to be a hard requirement) the others do not need to be. You
could attach one 70GB as the LS disk but then flag it with STRASPBAL to
NOT be used (*ENDALC.) Then attach a stack of 6 20's for example for the
rest of the system giving you 120GB for a small partition. Yes it will
say 190G and use that much on the host but that's better than the 420GB
suggested below.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com
www.iInTheCloud.com

On 10/16/2013 2:16 PM, Evan Harris wrote:

I don't see the two statements as totally contradictory, though the one I
referenced was later than that you referred to.

What's needed is a document that covers:
- minimum physical drive required for a hardware partition
- minimum size that can be allocated to a storage space for a guest

Having to create a partition of 420gb or better as a minimum requirement

is

overkill if you want to really be able to take advantage of the
virtualisation capability.

You need to be able to be creating partitions down around the 150-200 gb
mark otherwise the storage requirements balloon out,

Given that you have enough memory, based on those minimums you'd need
around 5TBs of storage to create a host with 9 guests. (That's based on
allocating 400Gb to each guest and running the host at around 70% full;

all

partitions allocated .1 processors. That amount of storage could get hard
to explain, especially if all the environments ran at 30 or 40 per cent
utilised in terms of disk.

I realize that's an extreme example but if (for example) you wanted to
build out a dev/test environment with a lot more environments that's not
totally out of the question these days




On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 6:51 AM, <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

She also stated this:
"Minimum load source size is currently 35GB. Soon it will be 70GB. My
recommendation is 70GB or larger."
in
http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l/201205/msg00915.html

On guested partitions the rule of thumb is
- six or more virtual disks
- of a consistent size
- keeping in mind the 70 GB future minimum size
Corrections or suggestions by better minds than mine are certainly
welcome.

You know, if IBM would just update this site:
http://www-947.ibm.com/systems/support/i/planning/upgrade/future.html
officially all would be better.

Trust me, I brought this up while in Rochester last week. With
suggestions that the sooner they get it done, the sooner people could

get

it in their 2014 budgets. Therefore the sooner IBM could cash the

check.

Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1
Group Dekko
Dept 1600
Mail to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: Evan Harris <auctionitis@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx

,

Date: 10/16/2013 01:17 PM
Subject: Re: 7.2 Was: IBM i 7.1 Technology Refresh 7 available

Nov.

15-CLARIFICATION on POWER5
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx



This is interesting.

Late last year Sue Baker recommended on this list a load source of 25gb

or

larger, and made a point of differentiating between physical disks and
virtualised disks. See this post:
http://archive.midrange.com/midrange-l/201209/msg00500.html

I realize this list in not an official IBM channel, so I am not
complaining
about the difference between what was said and what you are saying. Key
thing I think is that the minimum disk size for a guest *might* be

smaller

than the 70 GB but this is the smallest physical disk that will be
allowed.

Maybe we need to go with 40 gb or some other size when configuring a
storage space for a guest partition.


On Thu, Oct 17, 2013 at 5:06 AM, Pete Massiello - ML <
pmassiello-ml@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

That is true. Also note that 7.2 will require a load source that is

70GB

or higher, and right now the min is 17GB so that is a big jump and

people

should start planning for this now.

Pete

--
Pete Massiello
iTech Solutions
http://www.itechsol.com
http://www.iInTheCloud.com





-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:
midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of rob@xxxxxxxxx
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2013 10:39 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: 7.2 Was: IBM i 7.1 Technology Refresh 7 available Nov.
15-CLARIFICATION on POWER5

<snip>
[IBM i 7.1 partitions>->(BECOMES)->: Partitions with the release
after IBM i 7.1 cannot own any HSL/RIO or IOP hardware, but they can be
virtual clients. (This support statement was already true for POWER7

and

later. This planning statement specifically applies to POWER6
technology-based systems running (ADDED)->[the release after] IBM i

7.1.)

</snip>

Would guesting 7.2, either
- on a host 7.1 partition
- or on VIOS
insulate you from the above statement? Granted all affected I/O (disk,
tape controllers, etc) would have to either be on supported hardware or

be

virtualized also.


Rob Berendt
--
IBM Certified System Administrator - IBM i 6.1 Group Dekko Dept 1600

Mail

to: 2505 Dekko Drive
Garrett, IN 46738
Ship to: Dock 108
6928N 400E
Kendallville, IN 46755
http://www.dekko.com





From: DrFranken <midrange@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx

,

Date: 10/08/2013 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: IBM i 7.1 Technology Refresh 7 available Nov.
15-CLARIFICATION on POWER5
Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx



Steve Will responded with these corrections:
===================================================
The next generation of servers following POWER7® / POWER7+™ is

not

planned to support IBM i 6.1 and will require IBM i 7.1, or later.

[IBM i 7.1 partitions]->(BECOMES)->: The release after IBM i 7.1
will run on POWER6® and newer hardware. No POWER5 technology-based
systems are supported.

[IBM i 7.1 partitions>->(BECOMES)->: Partitions with the release
after IBM i 7.1 cannot own any HSL/RIO or IOP hardware, but they can be
virtual clients. (This support statement was already true for POWER7

and

later. This planning statement specifically applies to POWER6
technology-based systems running (ADDED)->[the release after] IBM i

7.1.)

Language Translation Support: Starting with (ADDED)->[the release
after] 7.1, the 5770-SS1 IBM i operating system and subsequent products
will no longer be translated into Croatian and Romanian. The national
language version feature codes for Croatian (#2912) and Romanian

(#2992)

will remain, but the text will now be delivered in English. The system
multicultural support for these languages will not be affected.

======================================================
So effectively there was some 'oops' where IBM i 7.1 was used where

'The

release after 7.1' was intended.

Also if you missed it, Colin Paris indicated that 'The release after

IBM

i 7.1' would be known as 'IBM i 7.2' and is expected in 2Q14.





- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com
www.iInTheCloud.com

On 10/8/2013 11:01 AM, Gqcy wrote:

*This message was transferred with a trial version of CommuniGate(r)

Pro*

POWER5+, as well?


On 10/8/2013 8:59 AM, DrFranken wrote:

I have asked people 'who will know' for clarification but it has to

be

a

typo. It would be quite a shock to attempt loading a TR to a POWER5
system and find out that suddenly it no longer works. For IBM i 7.2,
POWER5 will not be supported.

- Larry "DrFranken" Bolhuis

www.frankeni.com
www.iDevCloud.com
www.iInTheCloud.com

On 10/7/2013 6:06 PM, Roberto José Etcheverry Romero wrote:

On that subject, i noticed something weird:

"IBM i 7.1 partitions run on POWER6® and newer hardware. No POWER5
technology-based systems are supported."
AFAIK IBM i 7.1 ran just fine on my test 520. Does this mean that
starting on TR7 the LIC wont load on such systems? or is it an

attempt

to move people off the old hardware?

Just a thought...

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Regards
Evan Harris
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