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Thanks Jim and the others for your replies.

Yes, when I go for the actual live upgrades I'll be looking more at exactly
what we save. To be more precise, to see what we don't have to save.

That said, we do have the 'normal' operational backups so it looks as if
I'll only be concerned with system type saves pre the conversion update.

The maths do help put things in perspective.

Cheers

Paul


On 30 March 2010 02:32, <JDHorn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

We have content manager on demand on a 520 with an ultrium 3. there are
millions if spool and scanned images and a full save21 takes a long time.
a full restore takes over 24 hours. if you do the math 3000000 objects in
12 hours is 70 objects/second. someone told me that an ultrium 3 can keep
up with about 10 disk drives so you could be disk bound. If you have a ton
of ifs objects of a specific type (like images) you may need to separate
them to different saves so the system can come back up without them and you
can later restore them.

Jim Horn

____________________________________________________



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Today's Topics:

1. Savsys taking an awful long time to complete (PaultinNZ)
2. RE: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete (Stefan Tageson)
3. Re: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete (PaultinNZ)
4. Re: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete (PaultinNZ)
5. RE: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete (Stefan Tageson)
6. RE: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete (Stefan Tageson)
7. Re: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete (PaultinNZ)
8. Re: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete (Vern Hamberg)
9. RE: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete (Pete Massiello)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

message: 1
date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 20:56:24 +1300
from: PaultinNZ <paultormey@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

Hi Guys,

I'm doing a Savsys (ALL) on a test V5R4M0 system prior to upgrading to
V6R1.

As this is a test environment there shouldn't be that much happening ie
that
many objects to save!

However, the save started this morning at +/- 09:00 am. It's now 21:50 and
the Melbourne GP has just finished. So what? Well at least that finished.

I currently have the savsys saying it's processed 3150764 objects.

Sounds like a heck of a lot of objects on a system that isn't really used.

Obviously there isn't much I can do but restart the save but should I be
unduly worried and how can I verify prior to the savsys how many objects
need saving.

Cheers
Paul


------------------------------

message: 2
date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:15:05 +0200
from: Stefan Tageson <stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: RE: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

I'm doing a Savsys (ALL) on a test V5R4M0 system prior to upgrading to
V6R1.
I currently have the savsys saying it's processed 3150764 objects.

You are actually running a SAVSYS or ( as I guess ) a Save 21?

If it is a save 21 then we are probably talking about IFS objects, folders,
streamfiles.
You should probably check what's in the IFS before upgrading to 6.1.
What kind of tape device are you using? "Older" Ultrium devices is
extremely slow on small ifs objects.

Regards



Stefan Tageson

AddconIT AB

Cell : +46 (0) 732 36 99 34

stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx



------------------------------

message: 3
date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 21:28:23 +1300
from: PaultinNZ <paultormey@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

Yes Stefan,

SAVE 21 is the actual command.

Well, I'm no where near the site right now. But this is configured as a
3580-004 and capabilities on TAPE properties hows this as being ULTRIUM
2/3/4 capable.

Is there anyway of seeing how many objects we 'need' to save prior to doing
the actual save 21?

Paul

On 28 March 2010 21:15, Stefan Tageson <stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I'm doing a Savsys (ALL) on a test V5R4M0 system prior to upgrading to
V6R1.
I currently have the savsys saying it's processed 3150764 objects.

You are actually running a SAVSYS or ( as I guess ) a Save 21?

If it is a save 21 then we are probably talking about IFS objects,
folders,
streamfiles.
You should probably check what's in the IFS before upgrading to 6.1.
What kind of tape device are you using? "Older" Ultrium devices is
extremely slow on small ifs objects.

Regards



Stefan Tageson

AddconIT AB

Cell : +46 (0) 732 36 99 34

stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx

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------------------------------

message: 4
date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 21:44:51 +1300
from: PaultinNZ <paultormey@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

I think using DSPOBJD could do the display of what is loaded to the system.

I need to think about what we need to exclude from the actual savsys.

Agree?

On 28 March 2010 21:28, PaultinNZ <paultormey@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yes Stefan,

SAVE 21 is the actual command.

Well, I'm no where near the site right now. But this is configured as a
3580-004 and capabilities on TAPE properties hows this as being ULTRIUM
2/3/4 capable.

Is there anyway of seeing how many objects we 'need' to save prior to
doing
the actual save 21?

Paul


On 28 March 2010 21:15, Stefan Tageson <stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

I'm doing a Savsys (ALL) on a test V5R4M0 system prior to upgrading to
V6R1.
I currently have the savsys saying it's processed 3150764 objects.

You are actually running a SAVSYS or ( as I guess ) a Save 21?

If it is a save 21 then we are probably talking about IFS objects,
folders, streamfiles.
You should probably check what's in the IFS before upgrading to 6.1.
What kind of tape device are you using? "Older" Ultrium devices is
extremely slow on small ifs objects.

Regards



Stefan Tageson

AddconIT AB

Cell : +46 (0) 732 36 99 34

stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx

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Somerville
Manukau
2014
New Zealand
Home: 09 534 3469 or 0064 9 534 3469
Mobile: 021 0654157 or 0064 210654157




--
Paul Tormey
2/12 Ayrshire Place
Somerville
Manukau
2014
New Zealand
Home: 09 534 3469 or 0064 9 534 3469
Mobile: 021 0654157 or 0064 210654157


------------------------------

message: 5
date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:47:49 +0200
from: Stefan Tageson <stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: RE: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

Hi Paul,

It seems you have a decent tape drive.
To find out how many objects you will have to save can be cumbersome
depending on how your system is set up.
To start with we can divide the objects in two major groups.
1. Those that belong to the qsys.lib file system and those can be counted
with a dspobjd *all/*all *all outfile(L/F)
You can then check the # of records in the outfile.
2. Files and folders in the root file system ( I'm guessing that your 3''
objects belongs in here)
You can submit a job ( maybe long running ) with the following
command: call qsrsrv parm("METRICS" '/')
Output will be a listing of your ifs contents with totals

Regards



Stefan Tageson

AddconIT AB

Cell : +46 (0) 732 36 99 34

stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx



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-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:midrange-l-
bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of PaultinNZ
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 10:28 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

Yes Stefan,

SAVE 21 is the actual command.

Well, I'm no where near the site right now. But this is configured as a
3580-004 and capabilities on TAPE properties hows this as being ULTRIUM
2/3/4 capable.

Is there anyway of seeing how many objects we 'need' to save prior to
doing
the actual save 21?

Paul

On 28 March 2010 21:15, Stefan Tageson <stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

I'm doing a Savsys (ALL) on a test V5R4M0 system prior to upgrading
to
V6R1.
I currently have the savsys saying it's processed 3150764 objects.

You are actually running a SAVSYS or ( as I guess ) a Save 21?

If it is a save 21 then we are probably talking about IFS objects,
folders,
streamfiles.
You should probably check what's in the IFS before upgrading to 6.1.
What kind of tape device are you using? "Older" Ultrium devices is
extremely slow on small ifs objects.

Regards



Stefan Tageson

AddconIT AB

Cell : +46 (0) 732 36 99 34

stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx

--
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mailing list
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Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
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--
Paul Tormey
2/12 Ayrshire Place
Somerville
Manukau
2014
New Zealand
Home: 09 534 3469 or 0064 9 534 3469
Mobile: 021 0654157 or 0064 210654157
--
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------------------------------

message: 6
date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:54:37 +0200
from: Stefan Tageson <stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: RE: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

I think using DSPOBJD could do the display of what is loaded to the
system.

I guess most of your objects are in the root file system - see my
previous mail.

I need to think about what we need to exclude from the actual savsys.
Agree?


No. I think it is better to clean up unused objects before starting the
upgrade.
In most cases when things go wrong a save 21 is the base for
restore/rebuild.
You do not want to try restore the system from different partial backups.


Regards



Stefan Tageson

AddconIT AB

Cell : +46 (0) 732 36 99 34

stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx



------------------------------

message: 7
date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 22:07:54 +1300
from: PaultinNZ <paultormey@xxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

That makes sense Stefan.

Unfortunately I was being 'rushed' into the savsys. Actually, partly my own
fault as I hadn't expected the save to even look at things like shared
storage etc.

I had actually said earlier this evening that I will need to make sure we
have a clean environment before we get to the real/live system backup.

I will tackle the cleanup in the morning and let you know how I progress.

Thanks for your advice.

Paul

On 28 March 2010 21:54, Stefan Tageson <stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think using DSPOBJD could do the display of what is loaded to the
system.

I guess most of your objects are in the root file system - see my
previous mail.

I need to think about what we need to exclude from the actual savsys.
Agree?


No. I think it is better to clean up unused objects before starting the
upgrade.
In most cases when things go wrong a save 21 is the base for
restore/rebuild.
You do not want to try restore the system from different partial
backups.


Regards



Stefan Tageson

AddconIT AB

Cell : +46 (0) 732 36 99 34

stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx

--
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2/12 Ayrshire Place
Somerville
Manukau
2014
New Zealand
Home: 09 534 3469 or 0064 9 534 3469
Mobile: 021 0654157 or 0064 210654157


------------------------------

message: 8
date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 07:52:44 -0500
from: Vern Hamberg <vhamberg@xxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: Re: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

DSPOBJD shows you only objects in libraries. There is all the rest of
the IFS to consider.

Be very careful about cleaning the IFS up.

You might want to run RTVDSKINF and PRTDSKINF before doing anything
more, to see where the most disk space is being used.

Do you have a business partner to help you? If not, have you looked at
the manuals from IBM that describe upgrading to 6.1?

Another thing you should probably do is permanently apply all PTFs. This
will reduce the size of your save, etc.

There is much more in the manuals - I don't remember which ones to look
in - someone else here can jump in.

HTH
Vern

PaultinNZ wrote:
I think using DSPOBJD could do the display of what is loaded to the
system.

I need to think about what we need to exclude from the actual savsys.

Agree?

On 28 March 2010 21:28, PaultinNZ <paultormey@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:


Yes Stefan,

SAVE 21 is the actual command.

Well, I'm no where near the site right now. But this is configured as a
3580-004 and capabilities on TAPE properties hows this as being ULTRIUM
2/3/4 capable.

Is there anyway of seeing how many objects we 'need' to save prior to
doing
the actual save 21?

Paul


On 28 March 2010 21:15, Stefan Tageson <stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:


I'm doing a Savsys (ALL) on a test V5R4M0 system prior to upgrading to
V6R1.
I currently have the savsys saying it's processed 3150764 objects.

You are actually running a SAVSYS or ( as I guess ) a Save 21?

If it is a save 21 then we are probably talking about IFS objects,
folders, streamfiles.
You should probably check what's in the IFS before upgrading to 6.1.
What kind of tape device are you using? "Older" Ultrium devices is
extremely slow on small ifs objects.

Regards



Stefan Tageson

AddconIT AB

Cell : +46 (0) 732 36 99 34

stefan.tageson@xxxxxxxxxxx

--
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Before posting, please take a moment to review the archives
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Paul Tormey
2/12 Ayrshire Place
Somerville
Manukau
2014
New Zealand
Home: 09 534 3469 or 0064 9 534 3469
Mobile: 021 0654157 or 0064 210654157








------------------------------

message: 9
date: Sun, 28 Mar 2010 10:16:13 -0400
from: "Pete Massiello" <pmassiello-ml@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
subject: RE: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

First you need to have a better understanding of what you are doing. When
you say you are doing a SAVSYS, well that wouldn't show 3150764 objects,
that message comes out of a SAV command. So, most likely you have done a GO
SAVE 21. Well I can't even imagine a save taking that long to complete
(21:50 - 9) 12+ hours going to one tape. No matter what type of tape
technology (LTO4 or 1/4 inch) that is a long time for one tape. There is
something going on here. I would do a DSPLOG and look at the messages from
9:00am forward. This should tell you what step of the save took so long.
It will tell you when each component of the SAVE 21 ended (so you can see
how long each step took), also you will see when it did a SAVLIB *NONSYS
how
long each library took, and if there is a problem there. I would do a
WRKDSKSTS and hit F11, did one of the disks go bad? Did you lose the
battery
on your cache controller? Something isn't right for a backup to take 12
hours on one tape, unless you went multiple tapes then you could have a
large system and slow tape technology.

Pete Massiello
iTech Solutions
http://www.itechsol.com

Add iTech Solutions on Facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126431824120
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http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=2206093




-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of PaultinNZ
Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2010 3:56 AM
To: midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Savsys taking an awful long time to complete

Hi Guys,

I'm doing a Savsys (ALL) on a test V5R4M0 system prior to upgrading to
V6R1.

As this is a test environment there shouldn't be that much happening ie
that
many objects to save!

However, the save started this morning at +/- 09:00 am. It's now 21:50 and
the Melbourne GP has just finished. So what? Well at least that finished.

I currently have the savsys saying it's processed 3150764 objects.

Sounds like a heck of a lot of objects on a system that isn't really used.

Obviously there isn't much I can do but restart the save but should I be
unduly worried and how can I verify prior to the savsys how many objects
need saving.

Cheers
Paul
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------------------------------

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