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I'm not saying that companies can only find people with a single set of
skills. I guess I worded it poorly. But people who can effectively manage
multiple OSes are less common and therefore more expensive than a pure-play
person. Within the silos of a mid-size or larger IT shop it is uncommon for
the Unix & Windows folks to share/overlap. Ditto mainframe/Windows, i/Unix,
etc.

To be honest, I've always thought it funny. I mean, at their core all
operating systems do the same thing. From an administrative standpoint
there are merely differences in how they are implemented. The value-adds on
each platform are the true differentiators. For i that's primarily the
database. I'm not sure what the Unix/Linux value-add is since most of the
functionality that people want is provided by 3rd parties & not the OS
provider. For Windows it's lots of things built-in and low cost of entry.

Windows people have had to pick up SAN & virtualization skills as those
technologies now play heavily in the Windows world. i admins have picked up
virtualization skills as well since the platform became LPAR-enabled some
years ago. i admins are slowly picking up SAN skills as IBM moves the
platform away from the "DA" part of DASD. So the cross-pollination of
skills is happening but it's happening at the sub-OS level.


On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 11:17 AM,
<William.Epperson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>wrote:


In the job I had before this, I was a Solaris admin. We had 8 Microsoft
servers/workstations and 25 Solaris servers. There were 6 of us so that we
could maintain 24/7/365 operations. I have to tell you, most of my time
was spent studying and reading because it was more babysitting than actual
work. But you end up with that kind of environment when you can't afford
ANY downtime. There were 2 x Oracle systems and 2 x Sybase systems mixed in
there as well, not to mention the gobs of data being passed back and forth
in "real time".

In this job, I manage 6 iSeries machines, 1 Tru64 server, 3 Linux servers
(soon to be 6 more to replace the aging Tru64 server). I assist with 2 x
VMS systems and backup the SAN admin and AIX admin. So please don't tell
me that because you have a Unix box, a Windows box and an IBM i box, then
you have to have 3 totally different people to mange them. If you insist
on this then convince my boss to hire 3 more people to sit on their behinds
and manage that single box and do nothing else for the remaining 7 hours
and 45 minutes a day.

Bill Epperson Jr.
Systems Communications Analyst
Memorial Health System
(719) 365-8831





John Jones <chianime@xxxxxxxxx>

Sent by: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
To

Midrange Systems Technical Discussion <midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

cc
02/08/2010 06:16 PM

Subject
Re:
Power7
Please respond to
Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
<midrange-l@xxxxxxxxxxxx>






OK, but you need a Solaris administrator. And since the Solaris jockey
doesn't do Windows, you need a Windows administrator (who won't, of course,
do Solaris). And since neither of them are DBAs you'll need one of those
for the SQL Server machine. You might luck out and find a Windows guy who
can do the SQL Server, but you'll pay more for the talent. Compare that to
less than a 1/4 FTE for a sub-570 class iSeries. For several years I ran 2
LPARed 570s that took only around 40% of my time.

In the grand scheme of things it's really the operating costs and not the
capital costs that prove the value of an environment.

On Mon, Feb 8, 2010 at 6:13 PM, Jacob Anderson <jwa@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Hello,

Let's talk price since I am doing this right now with just one iSeries
model
520.

You can expect to pay between $20k and $40k for an enterprise grade,
lower
end, iSeries server. This will get you a Power5 or Power6 processor, one
or
two CPU configurations, the V6R1 software and the necessary miscellaneous
software support to run an application like yours (DB2, RPG, WDS, Query,
...)

We'll say it costs you about $25,000.

What can you get for that?

I have a stack of Sun Micro SunFire Enterprise servers in my office
waiting
for deployment. 2 4250 models and 2 2150 models. Throw an HP DL360 G4 in
front of these running Linux + pound, and you have a farm. That stack
cost
me $5k new, 6GB/8GB RAM configurations, SAS drives (10k), with 73GB on
the
2150s and 140GBx4 on the 4150s.

A used DL360 G4 is about $500 with dual Xeon 3.6Ghz.

Running Win2k8 Std on the 4250s = $1000 x 2, $2000
Running Win2k8 Web on the 2150s = $450 x 2, $900
Running SQL Server Std on the 4250s = $5999 x 2

Where are we at?
$5200 for SUN hardware
$500 for used HP load balancer
$2000 for Windows license
$900 for Windows web license
$12000 for SQL server
===
$20,600

This is less than ONE iSeries and can handle significantly more
throughput
than any single iSeries.

Just this configuration alone can handle 50,000 users on your web
application, provided that your app is written by professional ASP.NETweb
developers and experienced SQL administrators who know how to create
efficient data schemas.

The down side of this type of scale-out? Power. If you are collocating at
a
facility with 20A circuits, you can quickly use up your 10A running quota
and will blow your circuit if you ever have to power up ALL of the
appliances at once. Yikes.

IBM sub-45nm technology (like SUN 45nm tech, and Intel) uses
significantly
less power, so you can run more on the same circuit. Yet, IBM technology
is
more bulky than comparable SUN/HP technology, so you can't concentrate as
much in your rack space.

Since the iSeries will have gigabit Ethernet just like the Sun and HP
servers, it will be network limited just the same.

Additionally, Windows technology is not power-scaled in price. You can
add
more CPU, more memory, and more drive space and NOT have to spend more
money
to Microsoft. With iSeries, if you improve the box, you owe more to
Mother
IBM.

-- Jake




-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Nathan Andelin
Sent: Monday, February 08, 2010 3:05 PM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Power7

From: Lukas Beeler
Sadly still nothing that has the same performance/price ratio
such as a System x3650 M2


I was looking at the SAP SD benchmark, just released by IBM, for the new
Power Server model 750, and comparing it to the one that IBM released for
their x3650 M2 server. The net result was that the model 750 offered
3.34
times more throughput.

My next thought was to try track down pricing information to estimate the
price/performance difference. Unfortunately, pricing information is
harder
for me to come by. The other problem is estimating what it might take in
terms of cost to set up and deploy applications across four x3650 M2
servers, and a load balancer, and then tune the configuration to
approximate
the performance of the model 750?

We're developing a new Student Information System, which may need to
support
something like 100K concurrent logins from students, parents, teachers,
and
administrators if licensed by larger school districts. To me it would be
a
royal pain to have to deploy our applications across x86 server farms. I
think that would really drive up the cost of the system, too.

-Nathan.




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--
JJ
"I'm in no condition to drive...Wait! I shouldn't listen to myself, I'm
drunk!"
- Homer J. Simpson
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