Re: Hotel internet access in the UK

Jerry,

Rob's line was simply a throw away line that was a generalization.

There is no evidence that people are seeing through scams in these tight
economic times. There are scams, sure. These are tight economic times, yes.
But no one sees through a scam any more than they did when the economic
times were loose. And Rob had a single piece of personal evidence that
'businesses' are sending their people elsewhere - someone else had to find
the real research for him.

People ~are~ spending less in hotels, and contrary to the Hogg Robinson
report, my experience has been that people are spending less in hotels
overall - no matter the size/cost of the hotel.

As for scams, they will never be noticed by the majority of the public until
after they have been got. That will never change, regardless of the economy.
Maybe a few more people will check the internet for a 'better' hotel, but
that will be for a cheaper hotel, not a scam-free hotel.

One famous hotel chain has a small checkbox on the key folder they hand you.
It says something like.. "We are going to deliver USA Today to your room.
Check here to stop delivery and remove 75c from your bill." Scam? Sure. Who
notices? Not people. And not people in tight economic times.

I bought a flight in Europe earlier this year for 5GBP. The total cost,
after adding all the scams (luggage, taxes, fees, seat assignment, oxygen,
paper for ticket, conversation with flight attendant, etc) was 57GBP. Of
course, I was not using the airlines own credit card, so it finally cost me
60GBP. Scam? Sure. Who notices? Me. Who complains? Me. Who flies again? Me.
I won't change one scam airline for another, since they all do it. A travel
scam is something that makes people complain, but not move to a cheaper
hotel.

So, yes, his conjecture amazed me, so I asked. It would definitely be a
phenomenon if people were seeing through scams in these tight economic
times. But they aren't. So it isn't.

Yet another midrange-L throwaway line (read: unqualified, speculative,
unresearched opinion) to add to the confusion. It happens. I just wanted to
know for sure.
Trevor



On 6/4/09 10:04 AM, "Jerry Adams" <Jerry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Trevor,

My dictionary gives several meanings for "phenomenon" two of which are: "1) in
Kantian philosophy, a thing as it appears in perception as distinguished from
the thing as it is in itself independent of sense experience: 2) any extremely
unusual or extraordinary thing or occurrence."

Knowing how precise you are, I can surmise that you either think that Rob's
comment as a whole is contrary to actual events, or that it is an anomaly that
will eventually be "corrected". Perhaps, though, your disbelief is simply
with the phrase "starting to see through these scams." Not exactly sure
which, if either.

If you really want some sort of verification of the whole, you might check the
financial statements of the various hotel chains and compare their
profitability. These should be available from the SEC, as most/all are
publicly held corporations. Sorry, but I don't have the time to indulge you
here. The only "evidence" that I have are anecdotal reports on NPR, CNN,
etc., which back up Rob's overall observation.

If your problem is with the "scam" part, are you doubting that these issues
mentioned are not scams, or, rather, that people are too naïve or ignorant to
perceive them as scams? Just as a personal opinion, they are scams/shams, and
I think a great number of people understand them as such. After all, Hampton
Inn (my personal favorite) is just as good as any "high rent" hotel that
charges extra for things that it includes in the rent. It requires some
logical legerdemain to conclude otherwise than in the comment you questioned.

Or was this all just an intellectual exercise or undisclosed
dimensions/purposes?

Thanks.

Jerry C. Adams
IBM System i Programmer/Analyst
--
B&W Wholesale
office: 615-995-7024
email: jerry@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


-----Original Message-----
From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of Trevor Perry
Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 7:51 AM
To: Midrange Systems Technical Discussion
Subject: Re: Hotel internet access in the UK

Rob,

You say "In tight economic times businesses are starting to see through
these scams and putting their people elsewhere."
Can you point me to some research that shows this phenomenon?

Thanks,
Trevor


On 6/4/09 8:42 AM, "rob@xxxxxxxxx" <rob@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

Yes, you've discovered one of many strange anomalies about the more
up-market hotels here. Like, charging more per night for the convenience
of having a $15/person breakfast buffet available and a host of other per
fee items. And you could probably eat better by walking across the
parking lot of a down scale hotel and munching at Denny's. Or eating at
the free continental's available at many hotels.
In tight economic times businesses are starting to see through these scams
and putting their people elsewhere.

Rob Berendt