Re: IBM says customers are not interested in running i5/OS on p5 hardware

Steve Richter wrote:

On 4/12/07, Larry Bolhuis <lbolhuis@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

My question would be why do you think your question was not allowed? A
close friend of mine asked at least 10 questions which were not answered
and he doesn't feel 'dissaloweed' just that they were busy answering
other questions.

the Angus person told me on the whisper channel that only i515
questions were allowed. Looking back at the iSociety web site that
restriction is not mentioned. all it says is it is a fireside chat
with Jim Herring and Ian Jarman.

I spoke to my friend and he is now miffed. This 'Angus' is a friend of his and
he didn't get any such information as to why his questions were not answered.
Thinking about it though some of his questions were not about i515 so.....

As to 'performance is likely greater' I think not. IF you were allowed
to run i5/OS on a p5 that had the same processor, same memory, same
cache, same RAID card and same disk units as the 515 then performance
would be identical. They ARE the same box built in the same plant on the
same line by the same guys.

the system p5 and system i5 are built in the same plant?

Yes they are. Side by side and in the same zip code even! It is my understanding that the i5 labels are gold plated so that's why the p5 is cheaper :-)

The cost for i5/OS and DB2 and all that
goes with that would theoretically make the price the same as well.

the cost for ( i5/OS + DB2 ) is $250 per user.

I''ve not done the math so I'll take your word for the $250. But if Rochester were to take a P5 and add whatever charge is needed for the base parts of i5/OS to get to the 1st user it would still be the same. Beyond that your figure could be correct.

I believe what Ian meant was that shops running AIX for their primary
servers don't know or understand i5/OS and therefore don't see a need
for it. It's a mind set. They do what they need to do in AIX. It's not a
technical issue at all. You are coming from the i side of the fence
seeing p prices as lower and wondering how to get your i for less by
running it on p hardware. Nothing wrong with wanting lower pricing, mind
you, but you won't get it by running i5/OS on p hardware because they
ARE the same.

we will not get it for at least a few more quarters because IBM is
still trying to price the system at a premium. I was worried IBM
would shut the product line down if sales continue to fall. But I
think now that is unfounded. i5/OS is a done product. To continue
selling it IBM or whomever owns it in the future simply has to load it
in a p5, ship to the customer and deposit the check for the number of
licensed users.

You intimate that there is no difference between AIX and i5/OS except for the price. Am I wrong?

but Larry to respond to what you are saying, I dont see how the price
for i5/OS would be the same on the p5 as it is on the i5. A quad core
p5 can be purchased for $5000. Customers then pay $1000 and load AIX.
They pay $thousands more and get user base and per core priced db2.
With i5/OS it would actually be simpler. Buy the hardware then
purchase i5/OS licenses. Done.

We already know the hardware is the same stuff. OK the disks have different sector sizes but that's about the only difference and that's not a hard stop either. So the difference is the software. i5/OS inscludes a big bunchfull of stuff all part of the base. DB/2 plus journaling, remote journaling and SQL access is a huge part of that but also Apache web server Websphere Express, Tomcat, integrated backup and recovery software, virus resistance, full TCP/IP support incuding GUI configuation tools (iNav and iSeries Navigator for the web) a huge suite of TCP/IP servers including Windows type servers, Linux type servers and standard TCP servers, also servers for JDBC and ODBC, then there is built in call home support for problems, history loggin full blown printing support and queueing,, a huge set of debugging and job support, File systems that support everything from 8.3 to case sensitive UNIX like files, Almost every version of Java is supported some even in 32 and 64 bit in addition, extremely strong support for disk management including RAID, MIRROR, extend of the fly, ASPs and independant ASPs, support for virtual CD, DVD, and tape impages an and built in support for tape drives as far back as 2GB QIC and 8MM up to Ultrium and lots of autoloaders, ability to run programs as far back as the S/38 unmodified with no more than a restore and CALL, programming languages such as RPG, RPPG II, RPG III, RPG 400, ILE RPG, Cobol, ILE Cobol, C, C++, ILE C++, JAVA, and PHP, GUI development environment support included, support for XML data exchange, a very rich command environment, multiple fix obtainment methods....

Now What *I* believe is that when it all boils down to brass tacks there should be one piece of hardware and you buy the O/S that you need. AIX, Linux, i5/OS, whatever. Prices is based on capability, reliability, expandability. That's what I mean by price for i5/OS would be same on i or p hardware.

I believe that we agree on this, yes?

- Larry

-Steve