Re: Application design & architecture -- MIDRANGE-L

Walden,

You paint a sad picture of the System i community. Sure, we traditionallykeep our noses to the grindstone and only look up when we get another task.However, SOA is going to change your world whether you like it or not. Andthe System i shops that decide not to look forward will be left in the dust.As the world becomes connected and interoperable, we shall be the mainframeCOBOL programmers of the future.

I am much more positive about the future. I have customers with a System iwho are embracing SOA. They apply a little strategy to their tactical day,and they get somewhere. As the DP Manager of the 80s is phased out and theCIO mentality is introduced, the System i will become key to their strategyfor SOA and the future.

One IBMer likens SOA to TCP/IP. It took some time for this standard to beadopted, but because it was right, it became pervasive. Even now, System ishops using SNA are transporting their data over TCP/IP. I liken it to plugand play hardware. You used to have to open the box, plug in a card, installa drive, cable them together, plug in the power, and restart the box. Today,you plug in your thumbstick, and a disk drive is instantly recognized. SOAwill allow applications to be plug and play.

And, the more you try to compare SOA to something in the past (CASE tools),the less it means you will understand it. SOA requires you to think outsidethe traditional box - yeah, cliche, but it is true..

As for the 'visual' part of SOA, I agree with you totally. Even the best SOAthinkers have complicated the process. Go check out ZapThink's SOA Roadmap:http://www.zapthink.com/report.html?id=ZTS-GI103Although, Geniant's visual works with a little explanation:http://www.geniant.com/I am working to change that 'visualization' , and personally like to useanalogies to describe SOA. In my presentations, I use a Crystal radio todescribe the concept, and I reference maps of the world power grid. Both ofthese have received acclaim for being able to describe SOA well to theuninitiated.

In the end, SOA does not need a "sales mechanism". You cannot "sell" SOA.Once you have a Services-Oriented Architecture, I might be able to sell youthe concept that ~my~ product can enable your applications to become SOAcompliant. When that approach is used, no SOA 'visual' is required, IMO.


Trevor

----- Original Message -----From: "Walden H. Leverich"

Subject: RE: Application design & architecture

>Moving a wall and adding a toilet CAN be SOA.

Yes, it CAN be. Heck, I'll argue perhaps it SHOULD be. But for may
iSeries shops the reality is they're not allowed to use something simple
like a trigger, or SQL because too many people wouldn't understand it,
and it would take "too long." SOA isn't going to be on the table for
years.

SOA is going to have the same problem CASE tools and OO design had
before it. The payback -- and it's a big one -- doesn't come on the
first and second use, it comes on the 10th and 11th. Many shops are
pressed for enough time to "do it right" using the tools they have now,
to get enough time from management to do something that _will_ add to
the timeline for the first use (even if it saves _huge_ time and money
down the line) is a nearly impossible sell.

SOA also has an uphill battle because it's not visual. I don't mean
there aren't visual tools to help you, I mean SOA is an architecture,
not a presentation (as you well know). This makes it hard to sell to the
"higher-ups." I've seen numerous cases where web applications (and
client/server before it) were frowned upon until some programmer stayed
late and make a crappy, but cute, visual interface to sales inquiry. He
showed it so management and they literally saw the light. SOA has no
such sales mechanism.

-Walden