RE: Time to get serious

> -----Original Message-----
> From: midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:midrange-l-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Joe Pluta
> Sent: Tuesday, March 01, 2005 2:05 AM
> To: 'Midrange Systems Technical Discussion'
> Subject: RE: Time to get serious
> 
> 
> 
> Which leads to a related point: there's a whole generation of
> "programmers" being turned out of school these days that 
> really doesn't
> know anything about programming.  They can push buttons and 
> run wizards,
> but they couldn't tell you why (NOT (A AND B)) is the same as 
> (NOT A OR
> NOT B).  
> 

I'm going to have to take exception to this.  

As someone with a recent Computer Science degree (2003) along with 14+ years of 
business programming expirence, the problem I see is that most businesses see 
little or no difference now-a-days between a CS degree and an MIS degree.

Lets take a quick look at the computer-related requirements for the two of them:

****Computer Science (an ABET accredited program)****
--Required--
CS 240 Computer Science I
CS 241 Computer Science II
CS 242 Computer Science III
CS 400 Data Structures and Software Design
CS 405 Intro to Data Base Management Systems
CS 415 Social Implications of Computing
CS 466 Introduction to Formal Languages
CS 480 Comparative Languages
CEG 255 Introduction to Computer Information Systems
CEG 260 Digital Computer HW/Switching Circuits
CEG 320 Computer Org. & Assembly Language Prog.
CEG 333 Introduction to Unix
CEG 360 Digital System Design
CEG 433 Operating Systems 4
CEG 434 Concurrent Software Design
CEG 460 Introduction to Software Engineering
MTH 229 Calculus I
MTH 230 Calculus II
MTH 231 Calculus III
MTH 253 Matrix Algebra 3
MTH 257 Discrete Mathematics 3
ISE 301 Stats for Dev. & Manu. I
--Electives--
Choose one course from each of the categories A, B, and C, and remaining 
courses from any one of the categories A,B,C, and D. Up
to two CS 340 (1 cr. hr.) programming language workshops may be used to 
complete the requirement when 3 credit hour courses are
selected. The package of courses selected must be approved before a student 
begins taking the first elective course.
CATEGORY A - THEORY
CEG 416 (4) Matrix Computations
CEG 419 (4) Introduction to Fuzzy Logic Control
CEG 459 (4) Integrated Circuit Design Synthesis w/VHDL
CEG 476 (4) Computer Graphics I
CEG 477 (4) Computer Graphics II
CS 407 (3) Optimization Techniques
CS 409 (4) Principles of Artificial Intelligence
CS 410 (4) Theoretical Foundations of Computing
CS 419 (3) Cryptography and Data Security
CS 458 (3) Applied Graph Theory
CS 470 (4) Systems Simulation
CS 471 (4) Algorithms for Bioinformatics
CS 482 (4) Scanning, Parsing, and Semantic Analysis
CATEGORY B - COMPUTER ARCHITECTURE STRENGTH
CEG 402 (4) Introduction to Computer Communication Design
CEG 419 (4) Introduction to Fuzzy Logic Control
CEG 420 (4) Computer Architecture
CEG 421 (4) Microcomputer Design Projects
CEG 425 (4) VHISC Hardware Description Language (VHDL)
CEG 428 (4) Linear Optical Systems for Computer Engineers
CEG 453 (4) Design of Computing Systems
CEG 454 (4) VLSI Design
CEG 456 (4) Introduction to Robotics
CEG 458 (4) Digital Integrated Circuit Design w/PLDs & FPGAs
CEG 459 (4) Integrated Circuit Design Synthesis w/VHDL
CATEGORY C - SOFTWARE SYSTEMS AND APPLICATIONS
CEG 429 (4) Internet Security
CEG 435 (4) Distributed Computing and Systems
CEG 461 (4) Object-Oriented Programming & Design
CEG 463 (4) Personal Software Development Process
CEG 465 (4) Interactive Systems Modeling, Analysis, & Design
CEG 468 (4) Managing the Software Development Process
CEG 476 (4) Computer Graphics I
CEG 477 (4) Computer Graphics II
CS 409 (4) Principles of Artificial Intelligence
CS 470 (4) Systems Simulation
CS 471 (4) Algorithms for Bioinformatics
CS 482 (4) Scanning, Parsing & Semantic Analysis
CATEGORY D - SPECIAL TOPICS OFFERINGS
CEG 498 (4) Design Experience
CEG 499 (4) Selected Topics
CS 499 (4) Selected Topics


**** Management Information Systems ****:
--Required--
CS 208  Computer Programming for Business I
CS 209  Computer Programming for Business II
MIS 215 Business Data Structures
MIS 305 Business Operating Systems
MIS 325 Analysis and Design of Information Systems
MIS 345 E-Business Strategy, Design, and Application
MIS 415 Business Database Systems
MIS 425 Business Networks and Telecommunications
MIS 450 Systems Development and Implementation
MIS 495 IS Project Management and Development
MTH 128 or 129  College Algebra ("C" grade required for admission)
MTH 228 Calculus for the Management, Life and Social Sciences (hours apply 
toward GE)--Electives--
Choose one:
CEG 210 Introduction to PC Networking
CEG 211 PC Networking II
CS 214  Object-Based Programming
CS 302  Client Server Databases
MIS 435 Decision Support Systems
MIS 477 Special Studies in MIS
MIS 480 Special Topics in MIS
MIS 481 Internship in MIS
MS 322  Systems Simulation for Operations
ACC 326 Accounting Systems Design and Implementation


I don't know about you, but I certainly think there's a difference between 
these two degrees.  I also think a CS graduate would make a better business 
programmer.  But most businesses don't see a difference; which is why I'm 
thinking of moving out of the general business programming area.


Charles Wilt