RE: Thats all folks!

As a point of clarification, I'm not comparing OS/400 to Unix, others are.
I do see the 400 as a migration path for some 3k shops, hopefully some of
those 3k shops will see that too (that's why I'm learning it)   :-).  I
can't begin to tell you how much sales crap I've received since hp made its
announcement, and believe you me, they all promise the world on-time, and
accurate....HA!!

As for fun stuff in the OS, yes, it's middleware as a function of the OS,
and yes, MPE works in many veins the same (functionally) as the 400 with
respect to middleware, but yes, UNIX still has fun stuff inherent to it
(piping comes to mind).

Finally, it's not what you or I think/believe, it's what the *&^%$ Senior
Vice-President of some-company thinks, and he/she thinks what ever some
trade journal and/or what some salesperson told them.   :-(

Ray Shahan

"Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans", John Lennon

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Damato [SMTP:jdamato@dollargeneral.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 2:29 PM
> To:   'midrange-l@midrange.com'
> Subject:      RE: Thats all folks!
>
> Ray-
>
> I suppose one of the things that disturbs me about a comparison between
> OS/400 and Unix is that they're not comparable in scope.  The Unix and
> Oracle admins who report to me complain that the AS/400 has a bunch of
> built-in middleware applications as part of the operating system.
> Regardless of whether OS/400 is an operating system, middleware,
> bundleware,
> or all of the above it's somewhat meaningless to make a comparison to
> thinner platforms such as Unix unless you decide what else you're going to
> be running on them starting with the database.
>
> I don't know much about MPE/ix servers, but I've heard that they were
> similar to OS/400 in scope.  Much of the system middleware is part of the
> server/OS.  That's why there's a perceived market for HP3000 folks to move
> to the AS/400.  If you move from MPE/ix or OS/400 to Unix you have to go
> out
> shopping for some fairly significant layered products to complete the
> package.  I'm still waiting for someone to write a little something for
> Unix
> to replace what we like to call Work Management.  Most Unix and NT
> administrators minimize its significance
>
> I'm not sure whether the "cool stuff" you're talking about in each case is
> part of the OS or stuff you could potentially buy or write.
>
> Also, Unix isn't free at all within the context of this list.  If you're
> running a business that would purchase an AS/400 or HP3000 then you're
> running the type of business that would have to purchase AIX, Solaris,
> HP/UX, True64, etc. and Oracle or some other database, under support and
> maintenance.
>
> ...and most VMS folks have felt that the Alpha was in the toaster since
> Compaq bought it.
>
> -Jim
>
> James P. Damato
> Manager - Technical Administration
> Dollar General Corporation
> <mailto:jdamato@dollargeneral.com>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shahan, Ray [mailto:rshahan@SchoolSpecialty.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 12:42 PM
> To: 'midrange-l@midrange.com'
> Subject: RE: Thats all folks!
>
>
> <ahem>, folks, this is the AS400 newbie (18 year hp veteran), and I'd like
> to offer a different point. All of you speak of the AS400 in terms of
> it's
> 'better than anything else out there'...let's just clear that up
> quickly...it isn't.  The AS400 has some cool stuff, DEC's Alpha has some
> cool stuff, hp's MPE/ix has some cool stuff, and UNIX has some cools
> stuff.
> All three of these proprietary OS's have things that they do better than
> their competitors, but not one of them reigns supreme overall...I can say
> this because I've worked with all three of 'em (a little UNIX too)...but
> we
> can leave it as IMHO.
>
> The most important point about these proprietary OS's is not what one does
> better than the other, rather, it's what all 3 have in common...they are
> proprietary OS's, and right now, that ain't good in the public eye.
>
> Let me explain, GM tried for years to shake the image of the Oldsmobile
> brand as an old fogies car, the slogan was "This is not your fathers'
> Oldsmobile".  Try as they may, GM could not get the 'younger' generation
> to
> buy the Oldsmobile brand, and hence, GM is shutting that brand down.
> Oldsmobile's problem is our proprietary OS's problem...our OS's are
> perceived as old, and not up with the times, and unless something happens
> to
> change that mentality, then OS400 and DEC/VAX Alpha will go the way of the
> Oldsmobile along with MPE/ix (which has already been condemned by its
> owner,
> hp).
>
> The true irony in all of this is that UNIX is older than any of the three
> proprietatry OS's I've worked with, yet UNIX is perceived as new...HA!!
>
> Last, but by no means least, UNIX (and every other flavor of it) is for
> the
> most part, a free OS, and free is a hard price to compete with.  Free is
> so
> lucrative that it allowed the creation and proliferation of a computer
> hardware company that had no OS...Sun Micro Systems (SCO UNIX is still a
> flavor of UNIX).
>
> Make no mistake about it, hp's MPE/ix OS is a fantastic OS (and IMAGE is a
> fantastic proprietary DB), but hp killed both in favor of hpux running on
> a
> commodity manufactured box...don't think for a minute that IBM isn't
> carefully watching hp's results.  Because the success or failure of the
> demise of the hp3k, is also the barometer for the future of the AS400.
>
> NOTE: DEC's Alpha is already in the  toaster since hp owns that too.   :-(
>
>
> Ray Shahan
>
> "Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans", John Lennon
>
>
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