RE: Thats all folks!

Ray-

I suppose one of the things that disturbs me about a comparison between
OS/400 and Unix is that they're not comparable in scope.  The Unix and
Oracle admins who report to me complain that the AS/400 has a bunch of
built-in middleware applications as part of the operating system.
Regardless of whether OS/400 is an operating system, middleware, bundleware,
or all of the above it's somewhat meaningless to make a comparison to
thinner platforms such as Unix unless you decide what else you're going to
be running on them starting with the database.

I don't know much about MPE/ix servers, but I've heard that they were
similar to OS/400 in scope.  Much of the system middleware is part of the
server/OS.  That's why there's a perceived market for HP3000 folks to move
to the AS/400.  If you move from MPE/ix or OS/400 to Unix you have to go out
shopping for some fairly significant layered products to complete the
package.  I'm still waiting for someone to write a little something for Unix
to replace what we like to call Work Management.  Most Unix and NT
administrators minimize its significance

I'm not sure whether the "cool stuff" you're talking about in each case is
part of the OS or stuff you could potentially buy or write.

Also, Unix isn't free at all within the context of this list.  If you're
running a business that would purchase an AS/400 or HP3000 then you're
running the type of business that would have to purchase AIX, Solaris,
HP/UX, True64, etc. and Oracle or some other database, under support and
maintenance.

...and most VMS folks have felt that the Alpha was in the toaster since
Compaq bought it.

-Jim

James P. Damato
Manager - Technical Administration
Dollar General Corporation
<mailto:jdamato@dollargeneral.com>


-----Original Message-----
From: Shahan, Ray [mailto:rshahan@SchoolSpecialty.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 12:42 PM
To: 'midrange-l@midrange.com'
Subject: RE: Thats all folks!


<ahem>, folks, this is the AS400 newbie (18 year hp veteran), and I'd like
to offer a different point. All of you speak of the AS400 in terms of  it's
'better than anything else out there'...let's just clear that up
quickly...it isn't.  The AS400 has some cool stuff, DEC's Alpha has some
cool stuff, hp's MPE/ix has some cool stuff, and UNIX has some cools stuff.
All three of these proprietary OS's have things that they do better than
their competitors, but not one of them reigns supreme overall...I can say
this because I've worked with all three of 'em (a little UNIX too)...but we
can leave it as IMHO.

The most important point about these proprietary OS's is not what one does
better than the other, rather, it's what all 3 have in common...they are
proprietary OS's, and right now, that ain't good in the public eye.

Let me explain, GM tried for years to shake the image of the Oldsmobile
brand as an old fogies car, the slogan was "This is not your fathers'
Oldsmobile".  Try as they may, GM could not get the 'younger' generation to
buy the Oldsmobile brand, and hence, GM is shutting that brand down.
Oldsmobile's problem is our proprietary OS's problem...our OS's are
perceived as old, and not up with the times, and unless something happens to
change that mentality, then OS400 and DEC/VAX Alpha will go the way of the
Oldsmobile along with MPE/ix (which has already been condemned by its owner,
hp).

The true irony in all of this is that UNIX is older than any of the three
proprietatry OS's I've worked with, yet UNIX is perceived as new...HA!!

Last, but by no means least, UNIX (and every other flavor of it) is for the
most part, a free OS, and free is a hard price to compete with.  Free is so
lucrative that it allowed the creation and proliferation of a computer
hardware company that had no OS...Sun Micro Systems (SCO UNIX is still a
flavor of UNIX).

Make no mistake about it, hp's MPE/ix OS is a fantastic OS (and IMAGE is a
fantastic proprietary DB), but hp killed both in favor of hpux running on a
commodity manufactured box...don't think for a minute that IBM isn't
carefully watching hp's results.  Because the success or failure of the
demise of the hp3k, is also the barometer for the future of the AS400.

NOTE: DEC's Alpha is already in the  toaster since hp owns that too.   :-(


Ray Shahan

"Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans", John Lennon