Re: Free OS/400

Mandy,

Tomcat DOES run on a iSeries...loads in abotu 30 minutes and doesn't
require all the IBM's...PTF's du jour....and it's free...

Don in DC

On Fri, 29 Jun 2001 mandy.shaw@Notability.com wrote:

> Take a bow, Chris, I for one would say every word of that was bang on.
> 
> It must be said that there are various technical barriers to the
> development of non-green-screen apps: WebSphere App Server is v.greedy of
> resources and people can't justify the hardware upgrades, CA ODBC is still
> (actually or perceived) not that robust, ...
> 
> Let's try to use this list to get these issues out into the open & see how
> we can help with them.
> 
> For example, I gather that the Apache Tomcat servlet engine may be or
> perhaps even already is available for AS/400. Could we see this as a small
> footprint alternative to WAS, where people don't need the latter's full
> horsepower? But people need to *know* about these possibilities, the cost
> implications, and the training and support implications, before they can
> make informed decisions. They also want to talk to people who've done it
> before.
> 
> No-one will develop an AS/400 app that is dependent on layers of software
> (development or runtime) that they may or may not be able to trust. That's
> the attraction of developing another green-screen app - total
> predictability and minimal bottom line risk.
> 
> If you are working with a non-green-screen app that you reckon is
> bullet-proof, easily maintainable, easily supportable from the desktop
> delivery point of view and that doesn't use inappropriate amounts of AS/400
> resources - tell everyone about it!
> 
> Mandy
> 
> 
> |--------+---------------------------->
> |        |          "Chris Rehm"      |
> |        |          <javadisciple@eart|
> |        |          hlink.net>        |
> |        |                            |
> |        |          29/06/01 16:59    |
> |        |          Please respond to |
> |        |          MIDRANGE-L        |
> |        |                            |
> |--------+---------------------------->
>   >-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
>   |                                                                       |
>   |       To:     MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com                                 |
>   |       cc:     (bcc: Mandy Shaw/ESolutions/Notability)                 |
>   |       Subject:     Re: Free OS/400                                    |
>   >-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     Well, I know I spend too much time on a soap box but I cannot resist.
> 
>     First, I think the lesson of OS/2 should be learned by the AS/400
> community. When I read, "dropped it without a fight" that sure got me
> going.
> 
>     IBM fought that fight for a long time. I doubt that they would pick
> that
> banner up again. I'm sure all this is old knowledge, but for the sake of
> those who forgot, OS/2 was a joint venture between Microsoft and IBM.
> Microsoft dumped in for the opportunity to be the sole provider of Windows.
> IBM, thinking that Windows was crap while OS/2 was a real operating system
> felt that this was the way the market would go.
>     I must have read ten thousand emails from people who cried about "it's
> the marketing" with OS/2. About as many as I see crying about the marketing
> of the AS/400. What bunk.
>     The three biggest months in OS/2's life, when it sold about 1,000,000
> copies per month, had nothing to do with advertising. It was the three
> months following the release of Windows 95. People had waited since
> "Chicago" was announced (in the fall of '91, to be delivered 1st quarter
> '92) until 3rd quarter '95 for Windows next release. When it got there, it
> was no better than any other Microsoft product, bloated and buggy. So
> OS/2's
> sales took off. But three months later, when IBM was inspired to dump 500
> million dollars into promoting the OS/2 project, the show was over. IBM was
> advertising everywhere. People whined and cried that the ads weren't
> enough,
> they weren't this, they weren't that. But the problem was the applications
> hitting the market were all 32bit Windows applications. People were buying
> those applications, and they couldn't run them on OS/2.
>     What does that have to do with the AS/400? You tell me.
>     The AS/400 had (and maybe still has) more applications available for it
> than any other server running. It is bulletproof and versatile. It's cost
> of
> ownership is lower than any of its competition. But if what is selling is
> the flashy, GUI apps, then that is where the market is going.
>     The death of the AS/400 is being heralded by those who depend on it
> most. Java is more than just the "flavor of the month" for the AS/400, it
> is
> the chance for the machine to survive in the marketplace.
>     AS/400 shops won't do anything new! IBM has tried everything under the
> sun to save this machine, but AS/400 shops are killing it. There are a host
> of VisualAge products, all of which will develop GUI applications to access
> data on AS/400s, are they in use? When you pick up WAS and develop a
> website
> using your 400, you know you are in the minority for web site development,
> but how much in the minority are you for AS/400 development? How much of
> the
> AS/400 community is willing to develop using new tools and new techniques?
>     For gosh sakes, guys, we've been discussing sites that still run S/36
> code!
>     Bob still thinks of the AS/400 as a text based green screen machine.
> That is what is killing it. To many people it is just a dinosaur. The
> TCP/IP
> connection I can create to the AS/400 to run my GUI Java application,
> accessing 400 based files, is just as valid as his twinax based one. Just
> the same as it is when I access Unix based files instead of Telneting onto
> their servers and run text based apps. But if we, as AS/400 professionals,
> can't get past thinking of AS/400s as green screen machines, then that is
> all they will be in a marketplace that doesn't want those any more.
>     But looking at OS/2, you'll see that IBM doesn't abandon its customers
> quickly. OS/2 is still supported. I am sure that IBM simply cut back in
> that
> area to match the income model so that it was still making money, however
> slight. So there might be 2 guys patching OS/2 bugs or something. Well,
> when
> the AS/400 costs money instead of making it, IBM philanthropy won't include
> dumping money into a dead machine so you and I can still have jobs. They
> will cut it back until it makes money. Their fee bases support will be
> enough to pay the last 2 guys patching OS/400 and the one or two engineers
> working on the hardware.
>     The bottom line is that the AS/400 depends on the AS/400 development
> community. Just as Windows depends on the Windows development community.
> What Microsoft showed us and IBM apparently won't listen to, is that the OS
> maker needs to control the companies developing for the OS. Microsoft has
> used force to push developers from one platform to the next. IBM still
> counts on people to move to the best technical solution. We, as the
> developers, define what the AS/400 is. We build its perception in the
> marketplace.
>     So remember that next time YOU are deciding what your next AS/400
> application is going to look like.
> 
> Chris Rehm
> javadisciple@earthlink.net
> If you believe that the best technology wins the
> marketplace, you haven't been paying attention.
> 
> 
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> 
> Regards,
> Mandy Shaw
> 
> Notability Solutions plc
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