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  3. May 2001

RE: Websphere: a resource hog?

  • Subject: RE: Websphere: a resource hog?
  • From: "Joe Pluta" <joepluta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
  • Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 12:12:19 -0500
  • Importance: Normal
 
By setting up different web servers, you can reduce the start and stop time.
And the machine you use is very important.  My cycle time for a server
instance stop/start on my model 270 (this a machine with a base price of
$10,000) is a little over 30 seconds.  This is perfectly acceptable for a
development environment, where you shouldn't be making that many classpath
changes anyway.  If you're making lots of environmental changes, then you're
still in prototyping, you're not even in development, and you should expect
a little less throughput.  But once you've stabilized your environment, your
changes should be far smaller in scope, and the occasional 30 second turn
around should be acceptable.

Joe


> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
> [mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of
> mandy.shaw@Notability.com
> Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:27 AM
> To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> Subject: RE: Websphere: a resource hog?
>
>
> Got you - i.e. not steady state running. I agree with you, then.
> I don't know what you think, but a few green-screen commands or APIs that
> would let us set up this stuff would be lovely - I know you can do an XML
> import but ..... !
>
>
> |--------+------------------------>
> |        |          "Stone, Brad V|
> |        |          (TC)"         |
> |        |          <bvstone@taylo|
> |        |          rcorp.com>    |
> |        |                        |
> |        |          24/05/01 16:12|
> |        |          Please respond|
> |        |          to MIDRANGE-L |
> |        |                        |
> |--------+------------------------>
>
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
>   |
>         |
>   |       To:     "'MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com'"
> <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com>   |
>   |       cc:     (bcc: Mandy Shaw/ESolutions/Notability)
>         |
>   |       Subject:     RE: Websphere: a resource hog?
>         |
>
> >-----------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Just setting up instances, classpaths, etc.  Changing parms requires
> stopping and restarting, etc.
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: mandy.shaw@Notability.com [mailto:mandy.shaw@Notability.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 9:23 AM
> > To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> > Subject: RE: Websphere: a resource hog?
> >
> >
> > Brad,
> > I've got an app (admittedly not a complicated one) running
> > for a customer
> > Web site where we only have ever run the Admin Console once
> > ... to set up
> > the necessary Web Application Server instances. Now, to
> > restart WAS, we
> > just stop/start QEJBSBS & it all happens automatically, much
> > less painful,
> > both in terms of time and effort. What sort of things are you
> > having to do
> > with the Admin Console?
> > M
> >
> >
> > |--------+------------------------>
> > |        |          "Stone, Brad V|
> > |        |          (TC)"         |
> > |        |          <bvstone@taylo|
> > |        |          rcorp.com>    |
> > |        |                        |
> > |        |          24/05/01 14:35|
> > |        |          Please respond|
> > |        |          to MIDRANGE-L |
> > |        |                        |
> > |--------+------------------------>
> >
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------|
> >   |
> >             |
> >   |       To:     "'MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com'"
> > <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com>   |
> >   |       cc:     (bcc: Mandy Shaw/ESolutions/Notability)
> >             |
> >   |       Subject:     RE: Websphere: a resource hog?
> >             |
> >
> > >-------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------|
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > You're right, it is starting the admin server that takes
> > time/resources.
> > Also, the first time you perform any option on the admin
> > console, it takes
> > forever.  But, subequent executions are ok (not speedy, but not 10
> > minutes).
> >
> > But herin lies the catch22.  What happens if websphere shuts
> > down.  You
> > need
> > to use the amin console for some operations.  So, when you're
> > site crashes,
> > or you need to stop/restart your instances, you use the admin console.
> > That
> > can take anywhere from 10 minutes to 30 minutes or more
> > depending on the
> > state of things.
> >
> > With Classic HTTP server, it always takes seconds.
> >
> > Brad
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: mandy.shaw@Notability.com [mailto:mandy.shaw@Notability.com]
> > > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 7:41 AM
> > > To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> > > Subject: RE: Websphere: a resource hog?
> > >
> > >
> > > My experience is that *starting up* WebSphere uses a lot of
> > > resources, but
> > > that thereafter (depending on what it is actually doing of
> > > course, as Brad
> > > says) it's better. The other thing that uses lots of
> > > resources is the Admin
> > > Console.
> > > As shipped by IBM WAS 3 runs in the *BASE pool. It seems to
> > > have a lot less
> > > impact if you stick it in a pool of its own, and also
> > (although I know
> > > others disagree, and this is probably release-dependent) I
> > > think PURGE(*NO)
> > > helps quite a lot, as it does with Domino, because the number
> > > of ACT->WAIT
> > > transitions is very high because of all the threads.
> > > WAS 2 is a lot less greedy at startup time. WAS 2 is the only
> > > version on
> > > which I have experience of a high-volume site. I suspect that the
> > > differences between WAS 2 and WAS 3 are more marked at
> > > startup time than
> > > they are during normal running, but that's just a gut feel.
> > > Mandy
> > >
> > >
> > > |--------+------------------------>
> > > |        |          "Stone, Brad V|
> > > |        |          (TC)"         |
> > > |        |          <bvstone@taylo|
> > > |        |          rcorp.com>    |
> > > |        |                        |
> > > |        |          24/05/01 13:04|
> > > |        |          Please respond|
> > > |        |          to MIDRANGE-L |
> > > |        |                        |
> > > |--------+------------------------>
> > >
> > > >-------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------|
> > >   |
> > >             |
> > >   |       To:     "'MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com'"
> > > <MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com>   |
> > >   |       cc:     (bcc: Mandy Shaw/ESolutions/Notability)
> > >             |
> > >   |       Subject:     RE: Websphere: a resource hog?
> > >             |
> > >
> > > >-------------------------------------------------------------
> > > ----------|
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I also run websphere on a 720, but it is a hog.  Needless to
> > > say I don't
> > > use
> > > it for prodcution.  Maybe that's where the higher CPW
> > > requirements come in.
> > > It runs great with one or two hits (ie playing/testing), but
> > > if its a full
> > > blown e-commerce site getting hundreds of hits a minute (or
> > > more), then I
> > > could see why you'd need all the CPW and loads of memory.
> > >
> > > Brad
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Joe Pluta [mailto:joepluta@PlutaBrothers.com]
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 5:26 PM
> > > > To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> > > > Subject: RE: Websphere: a resource hog?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Dennis, I run plenty of WebSphere software on my machine,
> > > > which is a 370CPW
> > > > model 270 (with 0CPW interactive).  I don't see why you would
> > > > need 950CPW,
> > > > unless you are using WebSphere Advanced Edition.  You should
> > > > not need the
> > > > Advanced Edition unless you require EJB support, and most
> > > > applications do
> > > > not require EJBs.
> > > >
> > > > Joe
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: owner-midrange-l@midrange.com
> > > > > [mailto:owner-midrange-l@midrange.com]On Behalf Of Denis
> > > Robitaille
> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, May 23, 2001 4:39 PM
> > > > > To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> > > > > Subject: Websphere: a resource hog?
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello all,
> > > > >
> > > > > We are currently working on an Ebusiness project. We want to use
> > > > > an AS/400 with websphere. I am amazed by the power that this
> > > > > software requires. The minimum requirement calls for over 950
> > > > > CPW!!! I mean, we have over 40 AS/400 and none of them requires
> > > > > that much power. I also know that we can run webshere on an NT
> > > > > box and the required configuration is much less (and would cost
> > > > > about 75% less ALL included).
> > > > >
> > > > > Does somebody knows why this is so?
> > > > >
> > > > > My first tought would be that this is a badly written
> > software to
> > > > > require so much power to operate. Or is that du to the
> > > > > architecture of the Iseries?
> > > > >
> > > > > Denis Robitaille
> > > > > Directeur services techniques
> > > > > Cascades Inc
> > > > > 819 363 5187
> > > > > fax 819 363 5177
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > +---
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> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Mandy Shaw
> > >
> > > Notability Solutions plc
> > > Kingfisher House
> > > Frimley Business Park
> > > Camberley
> > > Surrey
> > > GU16 5SG
> > > UK
> > >
> > > http://www.Notability.com
> > > Email: Mandy.Shaw@Notability.com
> > >
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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> > > Surrey. GU16 5SG   U.K.
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> >
> > Regards,
> > Mandy Shaw
> >
> > Notability Solutions plc
> > Kingfisher House
> > Frimley Business Park
> > Camberley
> > Surrey
> > GU16 5SG
> > UK
> >
> > http://www.Notability.com
> > Email: Mandy.Shaw@Notability.com
> >
> > Telephone: +44 (0)870 166 1000
> > DDI: +44 870 166 1324
> > Facsimile: +44 870 168 3920
> > Mobile: +44 7710 447966
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > Catalyst Solutions plc.  Registered No 2918101.
> > Registered @ Kingfisher House, Frimley Business Park, Frimley,
> > Surrey. GU16 5SG   U.K.
> >
> > NOTICE:
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>
> Regards,
> Mandy Shaw
>
> Notability Solutions plc
> Kingfisher House
> Frimley Business Park
> Camberley
> Surrey
> GU16 5SG
> UK
>
> http://www.Notability.com
> Email: Mandy.Shaw@Notability.com
>
> Telephone: +44 (0)870 166 1000
> DDI: +44 870 166 1324
> Facsimile: +44 870 168 3920
> Mobile: +44 7710 447966
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> Catalyst Solutions plc.  Registered No 2918101.
> Registered @ Kingfisher House, Frimley Business Park, Frimley,
> Surrey. GU16 5SG   U.K.
>
> NOTICE:
> This message is intended only for the named addressee(s) and may
> contain confidential and/or privileged information. If you are not the
> named addressee you should not disseminate, copy or take any action
> or place any reliance on it. If you have received this message in error
> please notify postmaster@catalyst-solutions.com and delete the message
> and any attachments accompanying it immediately.
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
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