RE: AS/400 RPG Certification Test

I don't think anyone was reducing a degree to "taking a boatload of
tests".  The meaning was that you went through school, and you proved
you knew what you were doing by taking tests, completing projects, etc.

This is MUCH more (and should be viewed as such) to a degree than taking
a short test on something you deal with every day, as you would with
this cerfication process.  It's all that PC (Political Correctness, not
Personal Computer..hehe) garbage going around that makes this
certification necessary.  

My point was, that I could show my fiance the information to study, and
she could pass it within a week.  She's never programmed in her life,
and never wanted to program.  (Who also hates it when I talk about work,
because she doesn't have a clue what I mean.  She says it's like going
to a foreign country and trying to understand a language she's never
heard.)  Would that make her worth more than me since she has the
certificate and I don't?  I would hope not (although she might disagree!
haha).

For me, the certification is almost a "crutch" for people that don't
have the confidence in their ability.  Just flash the certificate and
people will think you're a good programmer?  If I were interviewing, I
would rather chat with them for 10 minutes and from that I could figure
out how strong he/she is in each subject, and how confident they are
with their abilities.  I know it sounds harsh, but that's my .02, and
I'm entitled to it.

As far as certification goes for contracters, if the customer asked if I
was certified, I would say "no, but I do have a degree and xxx years
experience.  Does that count?"  Then, depending on their answer, I think
I'd know if I wanted to work with them or not.  

Bradley V. Stone
bvstone@taylorcorp.com

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric [SMTP:Eric@norcov.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 12:25 PM
> To:   'MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com'
> Subject:      RE: AS/400 RPG Certification Test
> 
>       Having almost completed a late in life Bachelor of Science
> degree, I feel 
> that reducing a degree down to being good at taking a boatload of
> tests is 
> inappropriate.  I am taking night time adult classes so my curriculum
> is 
> probably different from that of a 18 year old full time student.  Some
> of 
> the classes that I have found useful include - C programming, Software
> 
> design (SDLC), database analysis, and data communications to name a
> few.  A 
> degree provides a prospective employer with two insights IMO.  1- that
> the 
> prospective employee can complete a long term project; 2 - that they
> should 
> be able to think (assuming a B average or above).
> 
> Eric Kempter
> Director of MIS
> Commair Mechanical Services
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rob Berendt [SMTP:rob@dekko.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 7:34 AM
> To:   MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> Subject:      RE: AS/400 RPG Certification Test
> 
> Who would you rather hire to be a RPG coder in your shop - someone
> with a 
> bachelors degree in fine arts or someone with an RPG certificate?  If
> I am 
> hiring someone to be a RPG coder I could not possibly care less
> whether or 
> not they have a masters degree.  Maybe if they were to be an analyst
> that 
> might matter, although APICS certification would probably weigh in
> more. 
>  After all what is a degree but being good at taking a boatload of
> tests?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jmorris@shellvacationsllc.com on 09/08/98 10:11:10 AM
> Please respond to MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com@Internet
> To:   MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com@Internet
> cc:   
> Subject:      RE: AS/400 RPG Certification Test
> 
> Hey Brad,
> You and I have something in common.. Degree's are worth a hell of a
> lot
> more than a test... When I had a bachelors degree someone wanted to
> know
> if I was a CDP?? Remember the certified data processors exam... what a
> joke.. Now I have a Master's and do think someone will ask me to be a
> certified RPG coder??? I believe a good general business background
> with
> an emphasis on accounting is worth a tad bit more than a certificate..
> I
> have a birth certificate (is that worth anything) I guess I need it
> when
> I die... It will help with writing the obituary... Let's put education
> in its place... A degree means you have set out to accomplish
> something
> and done it... You have achieved a goal... A certification test means
> you passed a test... Just my personal opinion.... fyi
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stone, Brad V (TC) [mailto:bvstone@taylorcorp.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 08, 1998 8:11 AM
> To: 'MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com'
> Subject: RE: AS/400 RPG Certification Test
> 
> 
> Doesn't a degree say more than certification?  A degree (2 year or 4
> year) says that at least you took 2 years of tests, and passed.  This
> certification is, to me, nothing more that the midrange world trying
> to
> be politically correct.
> 
> If you going to certify someone, or be certified, it should be a "pop
> quiz".  Either you know it or you don't.  I chuckle when I see posts
> here and other places about where to "study" for a certification test.
> The test, in its own right, was meant to show what you know, not what
> you can memorize.
> 
> Bradley V. Stone
> bvstone@taylorcorp.com
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From:       Al Barsa, Jr. [SMTP:barsa2@ibm.net]
> > Sent:       Saturday, September 05, 1998 11:41 AM
> > To: MIDRANGE-L@midrange.com
> > Subject:    Re: AS/400 RPG Certification Test
> >
> > At 10:52 AM 9/5/98 -0400, you wrote:
> > >Don wrote:
> > >
> > >>Point to ponder:  When was the last time you went on a interview
> and
> > were
> > >>asked if you had ANY certificates?  When was having a certificate
> a
> > hiring
> > >>criteria when YOU were looking for employees?
> > >>
> > >Much as I dislike the RPG Certification test because of errors and
> > questions
> > >not relevant to RPG, I have to admit having a certification does
> have
> > an
> > >impact.  I recently interviewed a prospective employee in Mexico
> for
> > one of
> > >my clients.  The interview went okay but was nothing special (my
> > guess in
> > >part because of language differences).  When I discovered the
> > applicant had
> > >both the System Administrator and System Operator certifications, I
> > made a
> > >strong recommendation to hire.  While the certifications were not
> > sufficient
> > >in and of themselves to make that recommendation, they certainly
> > resolved
> > >any remaining doubts I might have had about the applicant's
> > capabilities.
> >
> > I agree with Charlie that the current certificate tests have value,
> > however
> > the current tests have been written (on purpose IMHO) to be tricky.
> > The
> > problem is that we need skills.  I would rather have more people
> able
> > to
> > pass a reasonable test, than have IBM identify for me the people
> with
> > exceptional skills who are good test takers.
> >
> > Al
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > +--------------------------------------------------+
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> > +--------------------------------------------------+
> >
> > Al Barsa, Jr. - Account for Midrange-L
> > Barsa Consulting, LLC.      
> > 400 > 390
> >
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> >
> >
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