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Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 512-392-2577
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: cpf0000-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cpf0000-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of SJL
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 3:55 PM
To: Open discussion among iSeries Users
Subject: Re: [CPF0000] Gov Spitzer drops illegals license plan
A recent news report in Austin said that statistics gathered by insurers
indicate that 1
out of 5 drivers are driving without insurance coverage, and I would suspect
that a
disproportionately large number of that 20% of Texas drivers are illegal
aliens.
How do you propose to deal with this situation, Booth?
- sjl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Booth Martin" <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "Open discussion among iSeries Users" <cpf0000@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: [CPF0000] Gov Spitzer drops illegals license plan
May we return to the original issue - driving licenses for non-citizens?
Here are a few questions to think about.
What is the single and sole purpose of a driving license? To prove that
the bearer has certain driving skills and has demonstrated a knowledge
of the community's traffic laws. It has no other function. On that
basis, one only need to prove they can drive and know the laws. There
is no need to prove who they are.
However, because it is such a universal document and is monitored
carefully by government officials its also become useful to prove one is
old enough to buy & drink alcohol, have a checking account, and
countless other things. In fact, most states today even issue fake
licenses to non-drivers and call them State IDs.
For that reason the states have become careful in how they issue these
documents. Nothing wrong with that. The idea of proving one is who one
says one is is not new. Governments have done that for a very long
time. Legal immigrants quite often had no truly valid papers. How do
you suppose that was handled?
I do believe there is a great benefit to begin identifying the 11
million illegals in this country, and driving licenses is one way to
begin that process.
Rich Rijnders wrote:
----- Original Message ----
From: Buck Calabro <kc2hiz@xxxxxxxxx>
To: Open discussion among iSeries Users <cpf0000@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 11:31:26 AM
Subject: Re: [CPF0000] Gov Spitzer drops illegals license plan
(1)Every impediment you remove makes it easier.
If I climb onto a chair I'm closer to the moon too. My crystal ball
isn't very clear when it comes to discerning the magnitude of the
hypothetical problem of illegals using NY drivers licenses to register
and to vote. Yes, there probably are some and yes there probably
would be some more if the Spitzer plan had been enforced. But how
many more?
So we have to prove how many robberies there would be before we can argue
for keeping
the locks on the doors?
(3) See New Mexico, where over 45,000 dl's
have been issued without SS#'s. About 20%
of their estimated illegal population.
I am unfamiliar with the former New Mexico policy. What documents did
they accept as proof of identity before? In NY, those were and would
have remained quite strict.
"quite strict" ? An opinion to support an opinion. I like that.
According to this
http://www.nydmv.state.ny.us/idlicense.htm#idpoints
If you remove all of the citizenship and visa requirements (an obvious
requirement to
allowing illegals to get a license) you are left to accepting foreign
passports at face
value and various utility bills for validation.
From the New York Voter Registration Form:
[quote]
"Your identity must be verified prior to election day, so that you will
not have to provide identification when you vote. Your identity can
be verified through your DMV number (driver's license number or
non-drive ID number), or the last four digits of your social security
number, as requested in Box 9 of this application.
If your identity is not verified before election day, you will be asked
to provide identification when you vote for the first time. Samples of
the identification you may provide include a valid photo ID, a current
utility bill, bank statement, government check or some other
government document that shows your name and address."
[/quote]
Yeah, sounds pretty strict to me. _DL#_ or ONLY THE LAST FOUR DIGITS of a
SS#. You
can't even do a name verification with that. NY doesn't even have the
2006 mandatory
statewide voter registration database running yet. They are still taking
bids if anyone
is interested...
Living in and among aliens legal and illegal, the illegals I see
aren't inclined to visit DMV. They buy things only with cash, from
ethnic stores where other aliens work and ask no questions. They
don't drive, but they do use the bus and walk rain or shine.
If this is true, then why bother offering them DL's or change the
law
at all?
Bingo. Because it's a political gesture that satisfies a campaign
promise to 'reform' immigration issues. It has virtually no practical
effect and is therefore 'safe' despite the opposition it has
generated. 'Safe' meaning that the balance of power doesn't change.
Like most politics, it isn't about the people, it's about the
politician.
So your logic is to go ahead and give illegal aliens legal identification
because "it
can't hurt"?
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--
---------------------------------
Booth Martin
http://www.Martinvt.com
---------------------------------
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