This is the crux, isn't it? "...
Pimentel says his negative energy equation is true for practically all forms of fuel. ..."
What is the comparison of E85 to Arab oil?
Also, from an Economics 101 point of view, all energy is free. The
costs are always for purchased labor. We don't write a check to God
for energy, we pay men to refine it, build the refineries, drive the
tractors, build the tractors, etc. So, what we are really talking about
is: Who gets the wages? With E85, a lot of the wages go to American
working folks. So, even if it is a negative, that doesn't translate to
bad-for-America.
SJL wrote:
See this article - it validates what Rick wrote below:
http://news.minnesota.publicradio.org/features/2005/03/21_steilm_ethanolenergy/
<snip>
How much energy does it take to convert this corn into another energy
source -- ethanol? That is one of the questions being asked as the
Legislature considers whether to increase the ethanol content in gasoline.
(MPR file photo)
As the Minnesota Legislature debates whether to expand the use of ethanol in
the state, old arguments against the fuel are resurfacing. One of the most
contentious is this: it takes more energy to make the fuel than it produces.
The analysis comes from Cornell University scientist David Pimentel. What
may be less well known is that Pimentel says his negative energy equation is
true for practically all forms of fuel.
Worthington, Minn. - Pimentel has studied ethanol for more than 20 years. He
says even with more efficient production techniques, ethanol is still an
energy loser.
"It takes about 1.3 gallons of oil to produce one gallon of ethanol," says
Pimentel.
He uses a very detailed formula to come to that conclusion. Ethanol is
basically pure alcohol, fermented from corn. Pimentel includes in his
analysis the energy used to grow corn, as well as the energy used to ferment
the grain.
The equation includes obvious things like tractor fuel and the energy needed
to make fertilizer. But Pimentel takes it one step further, by including the
energy it takes to build the tractor....
</snip>
----- Original Message -----
From: "rick baird" <rick.baird@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "Open discussion among iSeries Users" <cpf0000@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [CPF0000] Bread and Butter Issues
For corn ethanol, it takes .75 BTUs to produce 1 BTU of ethanol, a net
of only .25 gain.
very inefficient.
On 11/7/07, Paul Nelson <nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
For now. It costs more to make a gallon of ethanol than it does to make a
gallon of gas.
Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 512-392-2577
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: cpf0000-bounces+nelsonp=speakeasy.net@xxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:cpf0000-bounces+nelsonp=speakeasy.net@xxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
Booth Martin
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 10:46 AM
To: Open discussion among iSeries Users
Subject: Re: [CPF0000] Bread and Butter Issues
Around here E-85 is cheaper.
Paul Nelson wrote:
It's the price of diesel fuel. That stuff is delivered in trucks. Diesel
here has gone up almost 75 cents in the last two weeks.
A bigger issue is the water supply in the Midwest. The Oglala Aquifer is
about 100 feet below normal levels because of all the guys using extra
water
to irrigate to grow corn for ethanol that will never sell. People are
not
going to spend more for a gallon of E-85 than a gallon of regular gas.
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/geography/map10.htm
Paul Nelson
Cell 708-670-6978
Office 512-392-2577
nelsonp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
-----Original Message-----
From: cpf0000-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cpf0000-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On
Behalf Of Wayne McAlpine
Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:08 AM
To: cpf0000@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [CPF0000] Bread and Butter Issues
Food prices seem to be rising at a breathtaking rate. The conventional
wisdom is that it's due to the shifting of corn into ethanol production,
but I can't understand why the price of a 12-ounce can of frozen orange
juice concentrate would jump from $1.99 to $2.55 in a two-week period.
Are we headed for the day when it will take a wheelbarrow full of money
to buy a loaf of bread?
The dollar is at an all-time low against all of the major currencies of
the world and sinking fast. The only thing that seems to be coming down
in price is plasma tv's, but how many of those can you buy? Scary.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0613/p01s01-usec.html
--
---------------------------------
Booth Martin
http://www.Martinvt.com
---------------------------------
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