Did *you* read it? Two points: One of the armed students is a cop.
Gosh. a cop. not an ordinary citizen, after all? Second point: it
appears the perp was out of ammo?
So, you are holding up as your example an incident where an off-duty cop
subdued an unarmed perp?
rick baird wrote:
I think you've been watching too much tv.
First of all, whether you know it or not, you probably walk by or meet
someone with a carry permit every single day. In some small towns,
the armed outnumber the unarmed. There are hundreds of thousands of
carry permits in this country, and very, very few are involved in any
public discharge of their weapon - intentional or accidental.
The point is that you see this as some wild west shoot'em up, when in
reality, you are surrounded by guns every day but just don't know it.
Responsible gun owners don't advertise.
Secondly, if VT hadn't banned guns, chances are good there still
wouldn't have been anyone in that building with a gun, and nothing
would have been different. There might have been one, and he might
have been able to change the events of that day. or he might not
have.
Not every school campus is a gun-free-zone like VT.
did you read this? I posted it earlier today:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting
was it paintball? no. it was two concerned citizens who apprehended
a murderer much like the shitstain from monday.
On 4/18/07, Booth Martin <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
"He"? you believe there would be just one? You don;t see this as
becoming a paintball game with real bullets?
rick baird wrote:
who knows what might have happened? I'm not going to suggest that if
the school allowed carry permits on campus that someone would have
been in that building with a gun and things would have turned out
differently. Only one thing is for sure. because of the ban, there
was no chance someone in that building could have prevented this.
And your "own guess" is just that - an uninformed guess. As long as
he didn't wave the gun around, he would have been apprehended,
probably cuffed, questioned and then released. alive.
On 4/18/07, Booth Martin <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I misunderstood your intent. I understood you to mean that weapons
should be required. If the rule were changed to what you suggest, and
based upon your comment, who among the dead, )or living for that
matter,) would have had a weapon and ended the attacks? My own bet is
that as the cops showed up, any non-uniform with a gun would have been
subdued immediately and harshly, possibly with his/her death resulting.
Otherwise the perp would have just stood there and said "He went
that-a-way! I think I winged him!" and then walked away a free man.
rick baird wrote:
Yes, I believe they were wrong to ban all guns from campus.
how much good did that rule do?
You talk about preventing drunk frat boys and little girls from having
guns. Yet very few of those people would have guns in the first place
before or after the ban. And they, along with all the responsible
students experienced in the safe handling of firearms, all obeyed the
ban.
Who didn't obey the ban? the freak didn't.
All the ban did was create a guaranteed resistance-free zone for the
freak so he could perform his rampage unfettered, and you see this as
a good thing?
On 4/18/07, Booth Martin <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
So you believe that the VT administration was ... right or wrong... in
banning all guns from the campus? I am not sure I followed the argument
that Gerald was putting forward?
rick baird wrote:
Gerald,
I know that, and you know that, but convincing bootsie of that is another story.
Not to mention the fact that a similar rampage only a few years ago,
armed students did indeed keep a tragic situation from becoming worse.
3 dead, 3 wounded, but the killer was stopped before he could kill
again, and stood trial for his crimes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appalachian_School_of_Law_shooting
On 4/18/07, Gerald Magnuson <gmagnuson@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Rick wrote:
"I don't think anyone at VT imagined this scenario would happen to
them."
Yet Someone did, they had a permit for conceal, and the School
Administration passed a rule banning weapons from school, even with a
permit.
The State house was going to pass a law making it illegal to have school
administration banning peoples 2nd amendment rights; with the help of
the anti-gun lobby, and VT administrators, the bill was killed in
committee.
-----Original Message-----
From: cpf0000-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:cpf0000-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of rick baird
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 12:37 PM
To: Open discussion among iSeries Users
Subject: Re: [CPF0000] Another Gun Nut Runs Amok
so, because of your lack of commitment to the safety of firarms, you
feel it's not a good idea for you to carry a firearm. I commend you
for making a sensible choice.
but, as such, since you don't want to carry, you feel society should
prohibit everyone else from doing so as well. If it's not right for
you, it shouldn't be right for anyone?
The question isn't "can I imagine a scenario?" I don't think anyone
at VT imagined this scenario would happen to them. I have never been
in that situation either, and I don't carry a gun.
That is a personal choice, and one that fits me and my lifestyle. But
I would never impose my personal choice as the only way for everyone
else.
Why do you?
On 4/18/07, Booth Martin <booth@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Well,to be explicit, Rick, I tend to clumsiness from time to time. If
I
had spent my life so far hangin' iron, I am pretty sure by now I would
have shot something or someone at least once by accident. That
doesn't
include dropping the weapon on my bare toes, crotch, or good
furniture.
In other words, my neighborhood would not be any safer if I were
carrying and might in fact be a good deal less safe.
As to needing the gun for defense.... man... I have never been in a
situation where I felt that showing a piece would move the situation
to
a safer and saner conclusion.
rick baird wrote:
I am curious how many emergencies one typically encounters that
would be
usefully resolved with a handgun? Or any weapon for that matter?
How
many times does one need a handgun to defend oneself when traveling
to
and from work for instance? Has anyone on this list ever been in a
situation where having a hand gun available would have been useful?
I am curious why you seem to feel that there should be a certain
number of emergencies one would have to encounter in order to
justify
protecting yourself.
Even if it occured only once in your lifetime, it would be worth it,
don't you think? As my dad said, it's better to have one and never
need it than to need one and not have it. He always had one, but
never once did he need it. was he a danger to society? No, he
wasn't. Was he justified in carrying a weapon with him at all
times?
Yes he was.
But more to the point, ask any of the gun owners among the students
and faculty in the VT classrooms attacked on monday the following 3
questions.
1) Do they wish they'd had theirs available at the time?
2) Do you think it's likely you will ever be in a situation like
this
ever again?
3) Do you plan to remain armed, or will you now give up your guns
since you won't need them anymore?
therein you will find your answer grasshopper.
--
---------------------------------
Booth Martin
http://www.Martinvt.com
---------------------------------
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--
---------------------------------
Booth Martin
http://www.Martinvt.com
---------------------------------
--
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--
---------------------------------
Booth Martin
http://www.Martinvt.com
---------------------------------
--
This is the Open discussion among iSeries Users (CPF0000) mailing list
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--
---------------------------------
Booth Martin
http://www.Martinvt.com
---------------------------------
--
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